Jack The Ripper Forums  - Ripperology For The 21st Century  

Go Back   Jack The Ripper Forums - Ripperology For The 21st Century > Persons Of Interest or Actual Suspects > James Maybrick

James Maybrick It should really be called the Maybrick Dairy; where else would you expect to find a cash cow being milked?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 20th, 2017, 04:22 PM   #1
SirRobertAnderson
Researcher / Senior Moderator
 
SirRobertAnderson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Noo Yawk
Posts: 3,863
Default "One off"

From the Liverpool 2017 Maybrick event, a snip from the transcript. It's an exchange between Shirley Harrison and myself.
Attached Images
File Type: png One Off.PNG (68.9 KB, 47 views)
SirRobertAnderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20th, 2017, 05:46 PM   #2
Dusty Miller
just curious
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 900
Default

It's hard to keep up with "diary" stuff, but didn't Casebook poster David Orsam show this particular research to be questionable?
__________________
Thanks for your time,
dusty miller
Dusty Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 20th, 2017, 06:19 PM   #3
Sam Flynn
Owl Catcher
 
Sam Flynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,942
Default

Who were "Trainers of Kent", Bob? Did Shirley say?
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen"
(F. Nietzsche)

Sam Flynn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 20th, 2017, 08:58 PM   #4
Dusty Miller
just curious
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 900
Default

Adidas or Nike?

Des damn fine shoos what you got there bro.
__________________
Thanks for your time,
dusty miller
Dusty Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2017, 06:06 AM   #5
Paul Butler
Who?
 
Paul Butler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Devon.
Posts: 880
Default

It was Traynors. A building firm, who used the expression to refer to a unique type of brick.
Paul Butler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2017, 06:36 AM   #6
Caroline Brown
Author
 
Caroline Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,232
Default

A May brick, presumably.
__________________
I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen
Caroline Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2017, 06:52 AM   #7
Sam Flynn
Owl Catcher
 
Sam Flynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,942
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Butler View Post
It was Traynors. A building firm, who used the expression to refer to a unique type of brick.
Thanks, Paul. So, another example of the term being used in a manufacturing context, then.

Also, when Shirley said that Trayners worked in Liverpool in the 1864, does that tie in with their records' using the term "one off", or is it incidental? (e.g "I found a reference to 'one off' in the Trayners archive dated 1884. Oddly enough, it turns out Trayners worked in Liverpool a few decades earlier") It's not quite clear from the transcript posted by Robert.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen"
(F. Nietzsche)

Sam Flynn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2017, 07:17 AM   #8
Paul Butler
Who?
 
Paul Butler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Devon.
Posts: 880
Default

As I recall, Traynors were not a Liverpool company but a Kent based one. Shirley discovered the use of the expression in their records dated to 1864. She also discovered that the expression had been used to refer to a type of brick used in canal construction potentially quite a bit earlier than that.

I find it hard to understand why anyone should pick this, of all the potential textual anachronisms in the diary, as the stick to beat it with.

The expression does seem to have originated within manufacturing, and had made it into print by 1904, so must have had spoken currency for some years before that. Someone in Maybrick's sphere might quite reasonably be expected to have used it.
Paul Butler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2017, 08:17 AM   #9
Sam Flynn
Owl Catcher
 
Sam Flynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,942
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Butler View Post
I find it hard to understand why anyone should pick this, of all the potential textual anachronisms in the diary, as the stick to beat it with.

The expression does seem to have originated within manufacturing, and had made it into print by 1904.
In a manufacturing industry sense, perhaps, but the abstract sense of "one-off instance" in which you or I would use the expression today is a different matter. And this is important; we're not talking about "one-off" in isolation, but "one-off instance" as a compound phrase

I struggle with the notion that Maybrick, being (loosely) involved in manufacturing would have been all that familiar with the term in its industrial sense either. Sure, he might have heard it (in the manufacturing sense), but to have heard/used it often enough so as to slip it (in the abstract sense) into a stream-of-consciousness narrative in a diary? I find that rather hard to believe. The same goes for any near-contemporary of Maybrick's having written the diary, of course.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen"
(F. Nietzsche)

Sam Flynn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2017, 08:28 AM   #10
Paul Butler
Who?
 
Paul Butler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Devon.
Posts: 880
Default

The 1904 example is of the expression being used in an "abstract" sense. It can also be found earlier than this, but not in the same sense as it has been used in the diary.

We have been through the meaning of "one off standpoint" before, and I'm not going there again. It means from a one-off point of view

It can take up to 50 years for an expression in common spoken usage to make it into print according to more than one dictionary compiler.

A 1934 example being "A splendid one-off pattern can be swept up in very little time.

A pattern is not a manufactured item either.

It really is time to knock this one on the head.
Paul Butler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10 Beta 2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright @ Howard & Nina Brown 2015-2022