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Mary Kelly Not just killed, but destroyed, and more mystery than you can shake a stick at.

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Old September 9th, 2017, 08:49 AM   #11
Howard Brown
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Thanks for doing that, How! I was just in the process of transcribing them as Gareth suggested. I tried Imgur as Jerry and Cris suggested but it doesn't always work for me and as Cris also mentions; no telling what will happen with that down the line also...
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Never a problem, Debs. Thank you for sharing the material !
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Old September 9th, 2017, 09:39 AM   #12
Robert Linford
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Hi Debs


I can't see what happened to her, but there seems nothing to say that she's
not the one in the casual ward, or even THE Mary Kelly.
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Old September 9th, 2017, 12:17 PM   #13
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Good discovery, Debs. We can never have too many Mary Kelleys. Barnett may have "known" Marie Jeanette was spelled the French way but nobody ever seemed to ask how to spell Kelly. Phonetically correct would have been fine.

What would suggest against this being MJK actually may work in favour of that possibility. MJK had a room in August 1888. But then there is the story from Mrs. Carthy about Mary showing up in the middle of the night with a strange man, needing a room. This story seems to be within Mary's Millers Court time. Maybe she spent more than one night away from home.
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Old September 9th, 2017, 12:29 PM   #14
Jerry Dunlop
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Interesting, Debs. Thanks for posting this.

This adds flavor to the story of Mary occasionally visiting a friend in the Elephant and Castle District.
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Old September 9th, 2017, 04:54 PM   #15
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Thanks Anna and Jerry. The Elephant and Castle story sprung to my mind too.
I think it's worth noting down Mary Kellys we come across who have a couple of things in common with MJK.
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Old September 24th, 2017, 02:02 PM   #16
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Probably not the best thread for this, but I've never been able to quite confirm the identity of the Catholic Priest at Mary Kelly's funeral. His name is given as "Father Columban" in all the reports, but who was he?

Here is a couple of blurbs from my notes. The question I ask is: was "Father Columban's" real name Father Joseph O'Grady? Are they the same fellow, and had he been brought over from Dublin for the funeral?


Funeral notice from "Dublin Weekly Nation" Nov 23, 1889

O'Grady--November 13, 1889, at St. Paul's Retreat, Mount Argus, in the 70th year of his age and 30th of his religious profession, the Rev. Father Columban O'Grady, Passionist, R.I.P.

It seems Father Columban was a bit of an old Fenian, which is interesting. Same paper, longer report:


"Another of that band of patriots, who wrote and suffered for the interests of Ireland in 1848, has departed from amongst us. The Rev. Father Columban (Joseph O'Grady) was once a contributor to THE NATION and an ardent advocate for the rights of tenants and all those who suffered from the injustice of landlordism. He was born in Clonmel, in the year 1820. He, with others, considered O'Connell too slow and joined the more advance party of Young Irelanders...."

Seems likely to be the right gentleman, but not entirely sure. Any thoughts for moving forward?
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Old September 24th, 2017, 02:54 PM   #17
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Hi RJ


I seem to remember Chris Phillips posting something about Father Columban on the Forums but I can't locate it.


Anyway, there was in the 1871 census a Father Columban O'Grady at a convent in St Helen's Lancashire. Age 46, born Ireland.


Here is a link to a book. If you click back two pages there's a handwritten note apparently by him.


https://archive.org/details/earlierandlater00ogrgoog
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Old September 24th, 2017, 03:06 PM   #18
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Wow, R.J., I like your way of thinking! I never thought of researching the priest.

I have some doubts that a priest came from Ireland to bury Mary, though if he was in London at the time...

An extremely interesting factoid about Mary's burial is that she was scheduled to be buried on something like a Monday, with a C of E service. SOMEBODY (????Barnett, McCarthy, Morgensterns, FAMILY???????) demanded she have a RC burial which took place the NEXT DAY, I think on Tuesday.

In that day before refrigeration, the most dignified end for Mary would have been burial at the earliest possible time. SOMEONE had strong enough objections that C of E was not acceptable. Why? (I can grasp the religious arguments but both are Christian and the rites are similar. Another consideration might be where she was buried. Perhaps an Anglican priest would not have been allowed to perform the service in a Catholic cemetery and that cemetery was already determined to be Mary's final resting place?)

None of this would seem to support the idea of a priest coming from Ireland specifically FOR the burial. Unless it was planned for the priest to come from Ireland, he was late, C of E was suggested and vetoed, thus burial was delayed. Just some thoughts.
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Old September 24th, 2017, 03:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Linford View Post
Hi RJ


I seem to remember Chris Phillips posting something about Father Columban on the Forums but I can't locate it.


Anyway, there was in the 1871 census a Father Columban O'Grady at a convent in St Helen's Lancashire. Age 46, born Ireland.


Here is a link to a book. If you click back two pages there's a handwritten note apparently by him.


https://archive.org/details/earlierandlater00ogrgoog
Lancashire...Liverpool...interesting.... Lots of Kellies in Liverpool/Lancashire.
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Old September 24th, 2017, 03:56 PM   #20
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Hi Robert --Thanks for those "leads," I will look into it further.

Hi Anna--You're right; there was, supposedly, a "last minute" change from Chingford Cemetery to the R.C. cemetery in Leytonstone. But I am not entirely confident that we can trust the contemporary reports as completely accurate, and we are forced to piece together the whole (?) story from several different sources. It seems more than a little odd that Barnett and McCarthy would have waited until Kelly was literally being lowered into the awaiting grave (I am exaggerating) before coming forward and insisting on a Catholic burial; that IS the way the papers reported it, and it would make for good theatre. However, Daily News,15th Nov. 1888:

"The relatives of the murdered woman, who were expected yesterday, have not arrived. The funeral has been again postponed, and may not take place until Monday..."

Four days earlier they were already reporting delays, but, as we know, the family never showed-up, and perhaps were never identified in the first place. The reason for the delay seems a little sketchy, at least to me...
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