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The Bucks Row Project Steve Blomer's work on recreating the Bucks Row murder of August 31st, 1888

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Old September 10th, 2017, 12:53 PM   #71
Gary Barnett
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Good point let me qualify the comment then, he was the least experienced in working at that site




I will need to look at that issue again before part 3, however it is unlikely to make much difference, it just blocks one possible course of events.



Agree entirely, hoped I had made that clear.




Never even considered if he was married or not, given that I consider the misogyny charges to be unfounded. Like many including Mrs Green, his prime concern seems to be there are no prostitutes around here, and if they do come by I have nothing to do with them as you say above.



A risk certainly, but maybe one worth taking, if he slept until around 5-6, and only at that time came down regularly to the works. am as Mumford suggests.

Thanks for the input Gary all helps. I don't think that sections been updated much since Casebook and your input there.


Steve
Steve,

I don't believe Mumford used the word 'only'. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, my guess would be that the manager of the yard, a hands-on master knacker and part-owner of the business who lived at the yard, probably did pop his head in now and again during the evenings. Boilers can be dangerous things: one exploded at HB's Marsh Lane Gate premises in 1898 and killed two of their employees. I doubt the yard was left completely empty, with gates open, during the night while the cat's meat was bubbling away. Especially not with all those dodgy 'women' about.

Mumford did use the word 'always', though, when describing his mates' nightly trips to the Grave Maurice, which contradicted Tomkins's assertion that he and Bretton went no further than the court (Wood's Buildings) that night. And of course Tomkins contradicted himself by then claiming that there were 'all sorts of women' in the Whitechapel Road (where he supposedly hadn't been). That he was 'badgered' by the jury about it suggests they had serious doubts about his account of his and Bretton's midnight ramble.

Perhaps he was telling the truth and he and Bretton stood in the Wood's Buildings for 40mins to an hour eating their sarnies. Possible, but unlikely I would have thought.

Gary
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Old September 10th, 2017, 01:15 PM   #72
Steve Blomer
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Steve,

I don't believe Mumford used the word 'only'. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, my guess would be that the manager of the yard, a hands-on master knacker and part-owner of the business who lived at the yard, probably did pop his head in now and again during the evenings. Boilers can be dangerous things: one exploded at HB's Marsh Lane Gate premises in 1898 and killed two of their employees. I doubt the yard was left completely empty, with gates open, during the night while the cat's meat was bubbling away. Especially not with all those dodgy 'women' about.

Mumford did use the word 'always', though, when describing his mates' nightly trips to the Grave Maurice, which contradicted Tomkins's assertion that he and Bretton went no further than the court (Wood's Buildings) that night. And of course Tomkins contradicted himself by then claiming that there were 'all sorts of women' in the Whitechapel Road (where he supposedly hadn't been). That he was 'badgered' by the jury about it suggests they had serious doubts about his account of his and Bretton's midnight ramble.

Perhaps he was telling the truth and he and Bretton stood in the Wood's Buildings for 40mins to an hour eating their sarnies. Possible, but unlikely I would have thought.

Gary
You are right of course Gary, the "only" is my insertion. However it is plausible that Barber slept for much of the night and so long as one worker was present it was not an issue. That worker could say the other two had just popped out . Of course we have no way of knowing exactly what happened on a regular nightly basis.

I will take all this information on board when I do the full writeup. Can I thank you for this very useful insight.

Cheers


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Old September 11th, 2017, 06:07 AM   #73
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Steve,

I don't believe Mumford used the word 'only'. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, my guess would be that the manager of the yard, a hands-on master knacker and part-owner of the business who lived at the yard, probably did pop his head in now and again during the evenings. Boilers can be dangerous things: one exploded at HB's Marsh Lane Gate premises in 1898 and killed two of their employees. I doubt the yard was left completely empty, with gates open, during the night while the cat's meat was bubbling away. Especially not with all those dodgy 'women' about.

Gary
Gary

Am I right in assuming then that the boilers were like large pressure cookers?
Any idea how they were fired? Gas? Coal?

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Old September 11th, 2017, 04:55 PM   #74
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Gary

Am I right in assuming then that the boilers were like large pressure cookers?
Any idea how they were fired? Gas? Coal?

Steve
I'm not sure, Steve. The boiler that exploded was pressurised - for boiling blood, I believe. The ones used for boiling cat's meat were called coppers and there are descriptions of workmen stirring the meat, so presumably they weren't pressurised. On one occasion a worker at a Wolverhampton yard fell into an open copper.

As for the fuel used, I would imagine gas in Whitechapel in the 1880s. And gas lighting too, which raises the question of how easy it would have been for Neil to identify the workers in the yard as he passed.
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Old September 11th, 2017, 05:13 PM   #75
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I'm not sure, Steve. The boiler that exploded was pressurised - for boiling blood, I believe. The ones used for boiling cat's meat were called coppers and there are descriptions of workmen stirring the meat, so presumably they weren't pressurised. On one occasion a worker at a Wolverhampton yard fell into an open copper.

As for the fuel used, I would imagine gas in Whitechapel in the 1880s. And gas lighting too, which raises the question of how easy it would have been for Neil to identify the workers in the yard as he passed.

Thanks Gary

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Old September 12th, 2017, 06:50 AM   #76
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The ones used for boiling cat's meat were called coppers and there are descriptions of workmen stirring the meat, so presumably they weren't pressurised. On one occasion a worker at a Wolverhampton yard fell into an open copper.
A bit drastic, Gary, just to put a little something in the kitty.

Reminds me of the butcher who walked backwards into his bacon slicer. He got behind with his orders.

At least the chap who fell into his upholstery loom came out of it completely recovered.

Unlike the French polisher who fell into his varnish. He perished but had a lovely finish.

He didn't have a lot of luck. He'd previously been in the fluorescent light trade and his business went down the tubes.

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Caz
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Old September 12th, 2017, 06:59 AM   #77
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A bit drastic, Gary, just to put a little something in the kitty.

Reminds me of the butcher who walked backwards into his bacon slicer. He got behind with his orders.

At least the chap who fell into his upholstery loom came out of it completely recovered.

Unlike the French polisher who fell into his varnish. He perished but had a lovely finish.

He didn't have a lot of luck. He'd previously been in the fluorescent light trade and his business went down the tubes.

Love,

Caz
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Did you hear about the brewery worker who drowned in a beer copper? It took him 5 hours to die. Why so long? He had to get out ten times for a slash.


BTW the Wolverhampton worker only had one leg (no punchline, it's true). Miraculously he survived.
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Old September 12th, 2017, 12:04 PM   #78
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BTW the Wolverhampton worker only had one leg (no punchline, it's true). Miraculously he survived...
...to audition for the role of Tarzan, presumably?

Love,

Caz
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Old September 12th, 2017, 12:32 PM   #79
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...to audition for the role of Tarzan, presumably?

Love,

Caz
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Indeed, at least with the swimming skill of JOHNNY WEISSMULLER.


All the best


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Old November 19th, 2017, 12:57 PM   #80
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Default update on Bucks Row Project.

Hi all

It is with regret and some embarrassment that I have to inform members that my work will not be completed by the date I previously said.
There is simply too much to work through and write up. In reality we are looking at something very large, a book maybe. I hope to have finished by the end of January and post a summary report at that stage. And this is despite the fact I am doing this full time.

I am truly sorry for the delay in publishing my conclusion. However i may post an additional section I had not planned in the meantime, say part 3A. Not sure yet but it is a possability.


Thanks for your patience.
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