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7. Occult “Then he becomes an ageless pathological monster, crouching to kill, on evenings when the stars blaze down in the blazing patterns of death.” - Robert Bloch

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Old September 4th, 2006, 01:56 PM   #21
Howard Brown
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Thanks Deb !

For one thing,we can't be sure if the layout ( which according to some was a profaned cross....others see a vesica pisces...others see an arrow ) means anything without a definite number of victims.

The probable idiosyncracy of Stephenson making little triangles in the air ( hard to imagine Cremers inventing some sort of episode like this....que bono ?) is one of the elements of ritual that caused O'Donnell to consider him aside from the Collins/Cremers statements. In addition,the numbers game ( 5, 9, 40, etc...) found in other black magic books were undoubtedly instrumental in formulating his ideas about RDS.

Hey,who knows? Maybe The Earl of Crawford was our boy in the long run.....anyone ever check into his alibi and wherabouts ?
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Old September 4th, 2006, 02:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by How Brown

The probable idiosyncracy of Stephenson making little triangles in the air ( hard to imagine Cremers inventing some sort of episode like this....que bono ?) is one of the elements of ritual that caused O'Donnell to consider him aside from the Collins/Cremers statements. In addition,the numbers game ( 5, 9, 40, etc...) found in other black magic books were undoubtedly instrumental in formulating his ideas about RDS.
Hey How.

Both the triangle drawing and "counting games" are symptomatic of Obsessive Compulsive Order. It could be that D'onstan, caught in an obsessive personal ritual by Cremers, came up with the "occult" explanation (possibly that he believed himself) that she would be predisposed to accept. At the same time it would give him a certain sinister cache.
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Old September 4th, 2006, 07:34 PM   #23
Howard Brown
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Magpie:

Well spotted my man.....

......so was his fastidiousness ( he was excessively neat in an age where bathing was not done everyday....and also his personal grooming was impeccable.....not to forget his habit of keeping his nearly worn through pants clean....his habit of walking which borderlined on silent Ninja stuff....and his general aura in the view of Cremers...). These are all signs of obsessive compulsive disorder.

I thought about this awhile ago Magpie after reading both published works on RDS. I also agree,but I did NOT consider what you did about using the ritual stuff as a reason or explanation for the quirks in his behavior. It makes sense...a lot of sense. Back then,there was less understanding of these afflictions and less awareness of the signs of the illnesses as well.

Maybe this is one reason he appears to have been a real loner. He lived alone in 1891 and appears to have died alone 25 years later. Not even enough to have his own burial plot

You know...not to derail the thread....but your mentioning of the obsessive/compulsive behavior may explain why we've taken him to be a strange,even evil character since we first heard of him...

He may well have been a tortured guy who used drugs to deal with himself and the world. I have to admit that at times I feel sorry for the guy,no kidding.

Thats why I wondered a couple of years ago if he was sick in his youth,like with whooping cough or some illness that could change the way one's brain operates from an excessively long and drawn out fever. It happens and is a factor in changing normal children into other than what they were previously.

Well...anyway....excellent observation Magpie.
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Old September 4th, 2006, 09:14 PM   #24
Debbie D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by How Brown
Magpie:

Well spotted my man.....

......so was his fastidiousness ( he was excessively neat in an age where bathing was not done everyday....and also his personal grooming was impeccable.....not to forget his habit of keeping his nearly worn through pants clean....his habit of walking which borderlined on silent Ninja stuff....and his general aura in the view of Cremers...). These are all signs of obsessive compulsive disorder.

I thought about this awhile ago Magpie after reading both published works on RDS. I also agree,but I did NOT consider what you did about using the ritual stuff as a reason or explanation for the quirks in his behavior. It makes sense...a lot of sense. Back then,there was less understanding of these afflictions and less awareness of the signs of the illnesses as well.

Maybe this is one reason he appears to have been a real loner. He lived alone in 1891 and appears to have died alone 25 years later. Not even enough to have his own burial plot

You know...not to derail the thread....but your mentioning of the obsessive/compulsive behavior may explain why we've taken him to be a strange,even evil character since we first heard of him...

He may well have been a tortured guy who used drugs to deal with himself and the world. I have to admit that at times I feel sorry for the guy,no kidding.

Thats why I wondered a couple of years ago if he was sick in his youth,like with whooping cough or some illness that could change the way one's brain operates from an excessively long and drawn out fever. It happens and is a factor in changing normal children into other than what they were previously.

Well...anyway....excellent observation Magpie.

How, Magpie, and others,
I'm really cautious when it comes to diagnosing based on a few symptoms alone. OCD is something that can be a symptom of many illnesses. For example there is autism. A friend of mine I've known my whole life was recently diagnosed with Aspergers syndrome which is a very mild form of autism. If you didn't know about her diagnosis and met her for the first time, you would think of her as a crass butthole with little regard for human emotion due to her sharp tounge. She just sees emotions differently and doesn't always understand why people react the way they do and vice versa. She is an excellent writer, highly intelligent and college educated, with a good job. As far as the OCD goes she likes to check numbers and make sure evertying is even and neat, and rechecking after it has already been done then again, and again and so on. However just looking at her, she is not someone that society would lable as a "headcase". She would rather read a book then have a family get together...... or instant message on the internet as opposed to talking on the phone.

Then again, there are the really bad cases of autism. I knew a girl in highschool with a severe case who would flip out if she didn't get to watch the smurfs every afternoon. If the busses were running late she had a screaming fit all the way home because she was missing the smurfs.

You'll also find that many people with developmental disorders (((not necessarily autism))) have an alcohol or drug problem,,, (as a coping method for their internal anguish). This also goes for fixating on a habits or "rituals" such as smurfs in the girls case or black magic in RDS's.

OCD can also be something as simple as counting all the fenceposts on the way to the library(every time you go) or as extreme as flipping the light switch five hundred times before leaving a room.

Would "highly functionally developmentally disabled" be a fair term here? I think RDS would definitely fit into this catagory. Definitely intelligent and definitely misunderstood.
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Old September 4th, 2006, 09:29 PM   #25
Debbie D
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Default Aspergers syndrome...

For anyone interested.....

Diagnostic Criteria For 299.80 Asperger's Disorder
A. Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body postures, and gestures to regulate social interaction
failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people (e.g. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
lack of social or emotional reciprocity
B. Restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests, and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:
encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g., hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
persistent preoccupation with parts of objects
C. The disturbance causes clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning
D. There is no clinically significant general delay in language (e.g., single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behavior (other than social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in childhood

F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A More Down-to-Earth Description
by Lois Freisleben-Cook
I saw that someone posted the DSM IV criteria for Asperger's but I thought it might be good to provide a more down to earth description. Asperger's Syndrome is a term used when a child or adult has some features of autism but may not have the full blown clinical picture. There is some disagreement about where it fits in the PDD spectrum. A few people with Asperger's syndrome are very successful and until recently were not diagnosed with anything but were seen as brilliant, eccentric, absent minded, socially inept, and a little awkward physically.

Although the criteria state no significant delay in the development of language milestones, what you might see is a "different" way of using language. A child may have a wonderful vocabulary and even demonstrate hyperlexia but not truly understand the nuances of language and have difficulty with language pragmatics. Social pragmatics also tend be weak, leading the person to appear to be walking to the beat of a "different drum". Motor dyspraxia can be reflected in a tendency to be clumsy.

In social interaction, many people with Asperger's syndrome demonstrate gaze avoidance and may actually turn away at the same moment as greeting another. The children I have known do desire interaction with others but have trouble knowing how to make it work. They are, however, able to learn social skills much like you or I would learn to play the piano.

There is a general impression that Asperger's syndrome carries with it superior intelligence and a tendency to become very interested in and preoccupied with a particular subject. Often this preoccupation leads to a specific career at which the adult is very successful. At younger ages, one might see the child being a bit more rigid and apprehensive about changes or about adhering to routines. This can lead to a consideration of OCD but it is not the same phenomenon

Many of the weaknesses can be remediated with specific types of therapy aimed at teaching social and pragmatic skills. Anxiety leading to significant rigidity can be also treated medically. Although it is harder, adults with Asperger's can have relationships, families, happy and productive lives.
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Old September 7th, 2006, 11:26 AM   #26
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Hi All,

An interesting discussion going on here. A few weeks ago I was reading up on some of my Donston books and it struck me that Donston may have been unwell and possibly a long term sufferer of some mental disorder. Is it just a coincidence that he spent time at Brighton and Southsea as they are both seaside resorts which werer often reccomended in those days for a "rest cure"?

As I am a complete no brainer when it comes to medical matters, can anyone tell me if the neurosthenia from which Donston suffered, would be covered by any of the above illnesses?

Rgds
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Old September 7th, 2006, 08:21 PM   #27
Howard Brown
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Is it just a coincidence that he spent time at Brighton and Southsea as they are both seaside resorts which were often reccomended in those days for a "rest cure"?--John

Dear John:

The "problem" with the whole matter is that it makes no sense for Stephenson to leave Brighton because you are right....it WAS a health resort/recuperation center.

So why go to the foul smelling city....the foulest smelling,most crowded city on Earth ( no offense Londoners.. )....with a complaint that is associated with excitability and restlessness ? The opposite should have occurred. Stephenson should have stayed in Brighton if the complaint was real....


But...in light of what Robert posted and which I just responded to on another thread.....you may have come on to something.

I believe that ( and this is my opinion only...) that Stephenson went to London not for any murder plans....or for special treatment at London Hospital that superceded the care he would have recieved in Brighton.....but:

Because they weren't running a charity hospital in Brighton like they WERE in London. No free ride in Brighton for Sudden Death.

Either Stephenson ran out of his funds in Brighton....and had no place to stay and invented the complaint....

.... Was told,asked,forced to leave Brighton and it was suggested he go to London because they DID have a policy of taking in patients without sufficient funds....a gesture of concern from people in Brighton.....

......or he went to London with neurasthenia because he could not pay to stay in a local facility in Brighton. In Brighton,he lived at the Cricketers Inn, hardly a recuperation facility.

GOOD POINT,John....and thanks for expanding my original premise on the thread Robert added that newspaper clipping onto.
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Old September 7th, 2006, 10:01 PM   #28
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Being the dumbass that I am...let me rephrase those last morsels of genius:

1. Stephenson did not have a complaint....he went to the London Hospital because he was devoid of funds. A hospital stay would satisfy his short term needs. In this scenario,his only objective was to find a lodging. He did,after all,have a friend at one time in London.

2. Stephenson was booted out of the Cricketers Inn. In desparate straits,came up with the idea of neurasthenia.....a "whiplash" like ailment,where it is easy to fake a disease such as neurasthenia. He couldn't afford Brighton's local facility...but three hots and a cot at London Hospital were close to or free.

3. Stephenson did have neurasthenia which may have been attended to less expensively or for free in the London Hospital.

Lets examine what happened 5 months later....

After his December 7th release....he immediately moves to St.Martins.

During the time between December 9th until May of 1889,he is found living at the London _Cottage Mission # 304________ ( which I will fill in a.s.a.p. because I forgot the damned name of that establishment !!! )....which means he moved after the St.Martin's flat....up until....

......... May, as he goes back into the hospital....but comes out eventually....I believe it was 70 days later.....to live with Collins.

Moving right along,because this is a pattern.....

.....has a falling out with Collins,loses his back room on Baker Street...moves out to place unknown.

Then is said to be with Woodhull in 1892-93.........

This is the movement of a vagabond. Within the period from June of 1888 to 1893 ( lets say January for right now...)

...he lived in EIGHT different locations in 4 and 1/2 years....At least .....

Collins in Southsea,The Hospital ( twice)...The mystery flat in 1891 between Collins and Woodhull...with Woodhull in '92 or early '93....Brighton...St Martin's and that London Cottage Mission,304 Burdett Road,Mile End*


* from page 247 of Ivor Edwards' JTR Black Magic Rituals
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Old September 8th, 2006, 04:55 AM   #29
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Re the fresh air argument, here's a link to something I posted Aug 24th 2004.

http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4469/11586.html


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Old September 8th, 2006, 11:00 PM   #30
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Robert:

Many thanks for supplying that link at Spry's....

I hope everyone looks at that link because its one of those things that we all probably have mentioned in our lives....how people who are "clean freaks" seem to have more difficulty than regularly bathed people.

It is worthy to note that Stephenson himself was considered ultra clean...which is a trait or characteristic one picks up about someone on sight without a certain amount of time transpiring before we "discover it' like someone's dining habits. Its there in front of us.

Anyone else have opinions on this excellent find by Robert?
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