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7. Occult “Then he becomes an ageless pathological monster, crouching to kill, on evenings when the stars blaze down in the blazing patterns of death.” - Robert Bloch

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Old September 14th, 2008, 01:27 AM   #11
Magpie
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Hiya Howard.

I'm sure you know that Levi wrote his work at the urging of Lytton.

Just one of those "six (six six) degrees of separation" snippets.
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Old September 14th, 2008, 09:28 AM   #12
Howard Brown
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Yes I do, Mag...and thanks for mentioning it.

Although its six ( six,six) or one half dozen of the other, I'll bet Stephenson was really excited while in the LH and reading the newpaper accounts of the skein of murders. It was fortuitous for him that they occurred where and when they did...because otherwise, his life story would never have been examined as it has.

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Old September 16th, 2008, 02:46 PM   #13
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Howard, you don't seem to realize what pressure suspect-based theorists are under to meet the demands of peers and general public. Just look at my yellow map of the murders below I got from the Shinto theorist; MJK's location was fudged a bit to fit. I think the other marker is a Shinto Temple.
You don't have to make people imagine a calvary cross or a vesica pisces with fudged math or fudged locations to recognize a definite pattern of straight lines, right angles, intersections, and terminals at regular intervals consistant with a person, sane by any modern standard, not travelling in circles like he's lost (or a madman?) or an occultist making a almond shape no one would see or understand but, taken in context, definitely with an overarching architectural/artistic plan with religious overtones. IMHO.
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But the kicker is the mention of the prostitutes organs being used in rituals...and RDS definitely used Eliphaz Levi as a source for the basis of the text he repeated in the December article....but he added the part of the prosses organs. Thats not in Levi's tome....
The chapter on Necromancy does provide an example of a black magic ritual that is partly performed in public, a surprise to me. Bones from a cemetery are crossed over your breast as you help in a Christmas mass and later thrown in the church, I believe. I guess Whitechapel could substitute for a church.
Bully for Bulwer-Lytton for urging Levi to write it. Dogma et Rituel Part Deux is pretty impressive, especially for a Parisien! C'est mervelieus!
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Old September 16th, 2008, 06:22 PM   #14
Howard Brown
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The chapter on Necromancy does provide an example of a black magic ritual that is partly performed in public, a surprise to me: Herr Von Schwantz vom Oesterreich

Listen here, my rootin' tootin' Teuton...I notice that you didn't mention any rituals with prostitutes organs. They ain't there,mon frere.....

I have a page from one of those dreadful Levi works which is almost replicated verbatim by Herr Dunceton. The difference between the two versions is that Dunceton added a little bit to the PMG article...about the aforementioned prosses & organs. Hims a liar,V.S.

As to a pattern...again, one thing I give Ivor credit for is mentioning the distances between the murders. Its worth considering.

Yet, anyone can propose any pattern is present based on how they look at the "layout" and a theorist doesn't or rather, wouldn't, have to push for black magic being the motive, unless they developed a theory that said suspect practiced it and had a catalog of prior experience in necromantic acts born of facts in their life resume. D'onston clearly does not. Everything he discusses about the occult crap is fictional...some is downright comical. In fact, Donston is more comical than he is sinister in the whole of his "presentation" to the world as a suspect. He's almost like that man Fitzgerald who came forward and 'fessed up to the Chapman murder....only he acted the fool one step too far with Marsh, who didn't know he was laid up at the time of the murders.

I defy anyone to claim Stephenson would be considered as "suspicious" as he has been claimed to have been if they examine the facts about the guy. Sure,he wrote about the "pattern" in the PMG, but undoubtedly others "saw" the same sort of layout themselves without assuming some necromantic link was present.

Schwantzie,old bean...if someone could show that Stephenson knew about the V.P., that might be worth considering and shooting the breeze about...until...we remember that he couldn't go out from the Currie Ward at night.

The theory of this Shinto almond shaped thing is identical to the V.P....just as viable and just as impossible to prove that it was intentionally placed there by our killer. The one thing is....is that it wasn't placed there by RDS. It couldn't have been,mein Stuka.

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Old September 17th, 2008, 03:43 PM   #15
Von Schwantz
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... a theorist doesn't or rather, wouldn't, have to push for black magic being the motive, unless they developed a theory that said suspect practiced it and had a catalog of prior experience in necromantic acts born of facts in their life resume.
Ivor is a Channel Islander. He knows what he has to push for with regard to an English candidate from the main-island. He had a lot of explaining to do.
You suspect Jack was English? How would you explain it? Occult, Masonic, or Welsh doctor doing uterine experiments in the field? It's an overkill that goes beyond revenge here.
I don't even explain it by motive or use occult as a motive anyway. I conjecture a multi-faceted person who's signature could reveal a separate facet unrelated to his motivation. A precise ritual with a practical purpose would not be necessary in this case. Subtle symbolism or a slip of the Freudian kind is all it takes and it doesn't have to be sinister.
I don't view any symbol as inherently sinister unless it's in the context of an evil act or in conjunction with another symbol for added context, like a goat and pentacle.
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Old September 17th, 2008, 05:39 PM   #16
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You suspect Jack was English?--Herr Obersturhmbannfuhrer V.S.

Yes I does,daddio...English speaking( first language) or at least,not foreign born.... I believe in the GSG. If the G was absent from the Case study, then I would have less of a belief that a non-foreigner was JTR.

I agree with everything you said afterwards. There's the possibility that this overkill had no motive other than expressing control and power to the nth degree by the killer.

Its also why I think Tabram ( a victim of overkill) is likely to be one of the victims of the Ripper too.
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Old September 18th, 2008, 03:56 AM   #17
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You suspect Jack was English?--Herr Obersturhmbannfuhrer V.S.

Yes I does,daddio...English speaking( first language) or at least,not foreign born.... I believe in the GSG. If the G was absent from the Case study, then I would have less of a belief that a non-foreigner was JTR.
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Originally Posted by Howard Brown*

Pay attention.....

1. There is no translating the GSG into a modern interpretation.
2. There is no satisfactory translation of the GSG into a contemporaneous and intelligible message which can be used in an attempt to "read" the mind of the author. Its an exercise in mental masturbation by anyone who attempts it.
3. The ONLY thing we could do is associate the provenance of the message ( Not a graffiti...too small...too neat...too concise in blaming the Juden for something ) to the events of that evening by its physical condition,not its syntax "problems"....and thats it.
*Casebook.org/The GSG. What Does It Mean? #56
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Old September 18th, 2008, 06:33 AM   #18
Howard Brown
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Pilgrim, old friend...:

I sure did say that about the mental and the masturbatin'. I'm limited on the former and goin' heavy on the latter.

I meant what I said in terms of anyone trying to "interpret" what the GSG means..but I believe it was written by someone who was not foreign born and for whatever reason...the GSG is a "shot" against the Jews.

If someone could interpret what it meant, that would be great. I just don't think it can at the present.
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Old September 19th, 2008, 12:34 AM
Von Schwantz
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