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Old February 7th, 2010, 01:14 PM   #21
Howard Brown
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Here's a couple of drawings and a story on a botched bombing attempt in 1894.
ANARCHISM IN LONDON: THE GREENWICH EXPLOSION AND SUBSEQUENT RAID ON THE CLUB AUTONOMIE.
The Graphic
Saturday, February 24, 1894








ANARCHISM IN LONDON: THE POLICE RAID ON THE CLUB AUTONOMIE.





And then the beginning of the article A.P. found...

Anarchism in London

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Old February 7th, 2010, 01:30 PM   #22
Mike Richards
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Thanks for posting that piece Howard, and AP for locating it. Interesting that some strong contemporary voices for anarchy are women, in the article it mentions the passions of a Louise Michel.

I think what happens in London from the early 1880's on is that the civil groups intent on discourse and ideologies on paper begin to shy away from the more radical factions, not just Sociaists but Home Rule factions as well. I have many articles which talk about representation of both kinds of social reformers at the same events, none more prominently than in Trafalgar Square in 87. But it seems to me that event scared most of the mainstream Socialists back to their meeting rooms to complain without protest, and the radical Socialists then sought alliances with similar minded anarchists within other causes, finding they had similar views and goals. Goals that included unseating the local government through elections, disrupting commerce through strikes, promoting classless societies and for the more fringe elements, removing human obstacles to their causes.

I believe the Club on Berner struggled with where they stood in terms of acceptable actions to further the cause at that time, because they had an eclectic mix of both law abiding and radical anarchist socialists.

When I found out the average age range of the Berner Club members, I thought to myself.....old Socialists talk about social change.. young Socialists try and force it.

The age demographic may be what makes me feel that Berner was a club that fostered "actions". Like the early Union formations. With as much violence potential.

My best Howard
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Old February 7th, 2010, 04:24 PM   #23
AP Wolf
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How & Mike, greetings
I thought it a great danger at the time that my post concerning the fact that the IWMEC of Berner Street expected 'trouble' just at the time of Stride's murder, was ignored by just about all.
If my memory serves me well, which it often does, on the very weekend of Stride's murder, William Morris was scheduled to give a lecture, but pulled out at the last minute because it was felt his security could not be guaranteed by the club against the police, and the mob.
But the police were expecting Morris that night, which makes Stride's comment of 'no, not tonight but some other night' of hyper-interest.
The IWMEC did get trouble that night, but it was not the trouble they were expecting... but maybe the Metropolitan Police Force of London felt it was a night to be kind to Kidneys?
Poor Eddowes.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 01:31 PM   #24
Mike Richards
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Hi AP,

I agree with you, under the circumstances "not tonight" might well have some meaning we havent explored to any large degree. It could be that she was begging off providing sex for "another night", or it could be that she felt something was going to happen that night and wanted to stay focused on seeing that happen.

I think often about the unfortunates who gave police information from time to time, and how Liz Stride and her understanding of Yiddish and her exposure to Jewish families in the neighborhood while under their employ might offer her some opportunities to see or hear things of interest to the Police.

And if one were to silence someone for something they knew, they wouldnt need to mutilate her and take organs. Killing her would be enough.

My best regards AP
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Old February 8th, 2010, 02:17 PM   #25
AP Wolf
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Absolutely, Mike, rather than chase that lame pony of interrupted motive, one is far better employed in seeking a motive that matches the crime... and the crime certainly does not reflect the motive of a very particular type of individual with a curious bent for murdering and then mutilating women in a very particular manner.
Ergo... a simple domestic crime or perhaps even deliberate assasination simply because Stride may have been a police informer.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 03:46 PM   #26
Mike Richards
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And at that point AP,.. you and I know all too well that anyone disinclined to getting wet will pass on riding that wave any further.

Thats because usually at this point...since we are in agreement about much of what we perceive are some elements of "truth" about the evening,... we should then look next to who had access to her, making the voyage about suspects once again. I'm glad we agree that its far more important to get clearer sense of who most likely didnt kill her in this particular case.

It seems to me that Liz acts as if she is under the impression that even while being broke, or with as little as 6d to start her evening, she seems to feel she will not need to concern herself with the cost of a bed at her usual haunt. She doesnt express to anyone that she intends to go out and "earn" that bed, as we hear in both Mary Ann's and Annie's case. What this suggests to me is that she planned on sleeping somewhere, but not somewhere that would cost her money. I think in this case we can safely rule out that she instead chose to take a workhouse bed that night, she didnt need to, she had the 4d when first leaving the house. And this would mean she was out at night believing she already had a place to stay for free...again....unlike P and A. Their absolute homelessness has to be a consideration I think...they had nowhere else to go....Liz seems to think she does, we dont know what Kates plans were and Mary has her own room.

If thats reasonable about Liz, then it would seem she came to the club anticipating something that she felt was pre-arranged. That in and of itself doesnt eliminate the possibility though that she was lured under false pretenses. Nor that the act of her murder might not have been as spontaneous as assumed.

We have to account for her defenses being down at the critical moment they should have been up...so some deception until that point seems rational to me anyway.

My best regards AP
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Old February 8th, 2010, 06:10 PM   #27
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Yes, Mike, those who surf by may well drown.
I think, just like you, it is the little things that niggle, like Michael Kidney's drunken arrival at the police station, in a carriage if you please, and him unemployed and broke... but that is another matter.
It has always been my inclination to see a previously unknown and unchartered police connection to many of the witnesses, and for that matter victims as well.
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Old February 8th, 2010, 08:54 PM   #28
Mike Richards
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.P. Wolf View Post
Yes, Mike, those who surf by may well drown.
I think, just like you, it is the little things that niggle, like Michael Kidney's drunken arrival at the police station, in a carriage if you please, and him unemployed and broke... but that is another matter.
It has always been my inclination to see a previously unknown and unchartered police connection to many of the witnesses, and for that matter victims as well.

Its a relief that I have at least one credible source to bounce things off without getting auto rebuff. My thanks for that AP.

Police and witnesses...police and victims......I can see where you might have spotted some smoke.

My best as always AP, and thanks again.
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Old February 10th, 2010, 08:09 PM   #29
Caroline Brown
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This reminds me of one of those disaster movies where different people, leading different lives with different problems, all have their lives ended - or changed forever - by the same impersonal killer storm, air crash or pandemic, just when they were expecting their lives to take some other less dramatic, but more meaningful turn.

When a faceless, nameless killer of strangers gets you, it ceases to matter whether you were going to London to visit the Queen at the time, hoping to meet the man of your dreams or picking your nose.

Kate's killer only had to drop by Berner St a short while earlier that night and see Liz as another piece of "cold meat" - and she would have become another piece of "cold meat", regardless of her immediate plans for the night ahead.

Or is this too horribly simple and final?

Love,

Caz
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Old February 10th, 2010, 08:33 PM   #30
Mike Richards
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If you have evidence that suggests all we have running wild that Fall is a man who sees women as meat, then thats not too simple at all.

The facts are that we dont have that kind of vidence...one was simply killed, and there are what appear to be different killer drivers at work within the same Canonical Group.

We have some killings, some which seem related to "a" killer, and some which seem not to be.

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