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20. Schizophrenia "Schizophrenia was first identified about 1806. This might be something to think about as we ponder whether the man who was Jack the Ripper could have been a schizophrenic. - Christopher George

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Old November 20th, 2011, 05:30 PM   #41
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO
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Originally Posted by Jeff Leahy View Post
I've specifically piontout several times that its rare that either catigory (which could be wrong anyway) is ever violent.

It is Paraniod 'Psychosis' that might form a basis for potencial Ripper like behaviour. And its those Psychotic episodes that are interesting and potencially dangerous in Aaron's Case

Again it would be potencial Psychotic Episodes that would be of interest.

I'm not certain it increase his potential to be the Ripper. What I find interesting is that it would give the potential for Aaron to have Psychotic Episodes at the time of the murders 1888. But appear for all intensive purpose, 'harmless' after that time.
I can agree with those statements Jeff because I have an open mind and am able to see both sides of the argument

It's a far cry from HS being the most dangerous form of schizophrenia though - I can't find any indication that is so

I am a gentleman Jeff and more than willing to apologise for any errors I might make but I don't see any errors to apologise for

You, however, appear to take a challenge to your views as a personal attack, and respond accordingly with some very personal insults

I think it's you who should be apologetic

You are more familiar than me with Kosminski - so may I ask, when does the evidence say that his first symptoms became apparent?

The reference to the current attack being of a period of 6 years is a bit contentious isn't it - we don't know when that entry was made do we?
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Old November 20th, 2011, 06:15 PM   #42
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I can agree with those statements Jeff because I have an open mind and am able to see both sides of the argument

It's a far cry from HS being the most dangerous form of schizophrenia though - I can't find any indication that is so
Hebophrenic Schizophrenics can be dangerous under cirtain circumstance as can Paraniod Schizophrenics.

The key phaze is 'Psychotic Episode'. The Hebophrenic V Paraniod is a red herring unless you can prove your theory with reliable statistics

They are both potencial dangerous . Full Stop.

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I am a gentleman Jeff and more than willing to apologise for any errors I might make but I don't see any errors to apologise for
You have clearly said that I stated I was an "expert"

I have never in my life claimed this.

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You, however, appear to take a challenge to your views as a personal attack, and respond accordingly with some very personal insults

I think it's you who should be apologetic
I think anyone following this thread can see who started and continues to antaginize

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You are more familiar than me with Kosminski - so may I ask, when does the evidence say that his first symptoms became apparent?
Admissions book Mile End July 1990....Duration: 6 years

Making Aaron 19 when the first attack started. Fairly typical.

The illness would develop in waves. Psychotic episodes last 18-22 weeks periods. Then improvements followed by further attacks

Quote:He has not attempted any kind of work in years.

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The reference to the current attack being of a period of 6 years is a bit contentious isn't it - we don't know when that entry was made do we?
No. Its unlikely the entry was made at a much later date. Anymore than the entry of Self Abuse.

So its probable that Aarons illness started or showed first signs in late teens

22 would be a great time for the start of Psychotic episodes. Typical.

Yours Jeff
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Old November 20th, 2011, 11:14 PM   #43
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Jeff, you have epically failed to see from the onset that the hebrephenic vs paranoic title was inspired by your incorrect comment that the revelation that Kosminski might have been a hebephrenic suddenly made him a much more likely candidate for being the Ripper because hebephrenia is the most dangerous form of schizophrenia

That is nowhere near my opinion or understanding of mental disorders

You have now toned this opinion down to an acceptable chain of possibilities making this thread defunct and choose to throw insults rather than admit any error on your part

I've pointed out where you stated you were a "sort of expert" Jeff, so where's your apology for calling me a liar? Are you saying something different now?

It's difficult to keep up and make sense of all your contradictions and makes conversation with you on a topic impossible

As far as I know, there is no indication when the entry of "6 years" was made

Why put "6 months" if 6 years was meant? Isn't it more likely to be a later update?

Do you know categorically when it was made Jeff or are you just speculating?

Besides, whether Kosminski suffered symptoms at 19 or not is irrelevant to the premise of this thread - see above

Anyway - you've retracted or revised the statements I was "concerned" about so I'm satisfied with the result of this thread - I've nothing more to discuss with you on this subject Jeff

I don't expect an apology and it would mean nothing to me anyway, so don't bother

As I said previously, I've got much better things to do with my precious time than continue with this childish debate thanks
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Old November 21st, 2011, 06:48 AM   #44
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Jeff, you have epically failed to see from the onset that the hebrephenic vs paranoic title was inspired by your incorrect comment that the revelation that Kosminski might have been a hebephrenic suddenly made him a much more likely candidate for being the Ripper because hebephrenia is the most dangerous form of schizophrenia
You have consistantly failed to see that the entire premise for this thread is missleading. As there is no statistical evidence to back up that premis. Indeed as I've consistently pointed out the terms are out dated and likely to be defuct for many reasons in the future anyway.

Dr Lars used this term because he was trying to explain a basic illness to a TV audience. I see know reason to contradict that diagnosis.

Both Hebophrenics and Paraniods experience Psychosis at various stages of the illness. It is this phase that is dangerous.

As both experience it, both are dangerous.

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That is nowhere near my opinion or understanding of mental disorders
We've already estabished that your understanding comes from reading stuff of internet sites aim'd at a broad and basic general public.

You are a box ticker. For a illness that is almost unique to every sufferer.

ie Schizophrenia has many syndromes that can combine in an almost infinate number of ways.

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You have now toned this opinion down to an acceptable chain of possibilities making this thread defunct and choose to throw insults rather than admit any error on your part
No what I've done is expanded on what is actually very complex because of your persistent stupidity.

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I've pointed out where you stated you were a "sort of expert" Jeff, so where's your apology for calling me a liar? Are you saying something different now?
Again i demand an apology. At no time have I ever staed I'm an expert or 'Sort of expert' which is a meilly insult put together by you. Both are false.

I have never claimed to be a 'sort of expert'. FACT.

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It's difficult to keep up and make sense of all your contradictions and makes conversation with you on a topic impossible
There is nothing contradictory in what I have written. Schizophrenia is a complex illness still not fully understood, which is why I sort the advice of people who have spent their lives working in this specific area.

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As far as I know, there is no indication when the entry of "6 years" was made
Oh God...conspiracy theory time. The next enter is 10th Feb 1891. Not six years later. Aaron is described as not having worked in years. The term Duration of 'existing' attack suggests they understood that 'Mania' comes and goes, consistent with what is known, by people who are 'experts' about Schizophrenia.

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Why put "6 months" if 6 years was meant? Isn't it more likely to be a later update?
NO. Your clutching at straws given all the knowns.

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Do you know categorically when it was made Jeff or are you just speculating?
NO. I'm making a reasoned accessment given all the known facts that Aarons illness started in late teens early twenties. Which is typical of the illness and 'ALL' the syptoms and time periods given for Aaron Kosminski. There is nothing to support the idea that Aaron's illness only started at 25...nothing. So a simple correction supports all the knowns and makes common sense.

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Besides, whether Kosminski suffered symptoms at 19 or not is irrelevant to the premise of this thread - see above
Yes i will start a new thread called 'Why Aarons illness suggest the possibility that he may have been Jack the Ripper'. When I have time, I'm very busy at present.

Bt obviously 19 is important to your premise as you have stated Paraniod Schizophrenics start around 25. Not that I've seen much statistical evidence to support it.

Its probably also explains Dr Lars diagnosis, ie the age and development of the syptoms. Dr X simply says SCHIZOPHRENIA.

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Anyway - you've retracted or revised the statements I was "concerned" about so I'm satisfied with the result of this thread - I've nothing more to discuss with you on this subject Jeff
You mean 'the Penny's finally dropped' that you were in the wrong, and you no longer wish to continue making a fool of yourself. I can understand that NEMO.

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I don't expect an apology and it would mean nothing to me anyway, so don't bother
Yes its obvious you are a man without principle.

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As I said previously, I've got much better things to do with my precious time than continue with this childish debate thanks
Its time that you could better spend doing some basic research on Aaron Kosminski, I would agree

Excellent

Yours Jeff
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Old November 21st, 2011, 05:02 PM   #45
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Will do Jeff

I look forward to the thread

Regards

Nemo
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Old September 2nd, 2013, 11:56 AM   #46
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Bumping up!
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