Jack The Ripper Forums  - Ripperology For The 21st Century  

Go Back   Jack The Ripper Forums - Ripperology For The 21st Century > The Victims > Elizabeth Stride

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 10th, 2012, 07:42 AM   #1
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO
Theorist & Speculator
 
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Shropshire UK
Posts: 6,516
Default Stride marginalia

Has anyone deciphered this scribbled out note by Swanson on the 19th Oct report of the Stride murder?

To me it appears to be saying something about Stride being at the Ten Bells and that someone could identify the murderer, going on to say that the man should have been detained

dsnote.JPG
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 10:11 AM   #2
Chris G.
Registered User
 
Chris G.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 12,644
Default

Hi Nemo

It looks to me as if this might be something that a computer programmer could decipher if they could copy the scribbled loops and "remove them" from the image.

I would agree that line 2 might be "Bells" as in "Ten Bells" or it might be just those loops that make it look like "Bells".

I can make out the odd word.

[something 3 letters (his? or he's?) something] back to back been
at Ten Bells [maybe] by that [something] to an [maybe]
the [rest of line completely undecipherable IMHO]
murder.
If [something 3 letters] 35 Berner Street [maybe] to the [?]
[two more lines -- and your guess is as good as mine, mate!]

Cheers

Chris

I need that pint in the Ten Bells now!

Incidentally, this is one of my arguments against the legitimacy of the Maybrick Diary. When lines are crossed out in that dodgy document, as in Maybrick's questionable doggerel, they are done with a straight line as if the words underneath are meant to be read in contrast to the style of a writer, as here, who legitimately wants to scrub out what he or she previously wrote. Comprendé?
__________________
Christopher T. George
Organizer, RipperCon 2018 in Baltimore
http://blog.casebook.org/chrisgeorge
For info about RipperCon in Baltimore, MD,
April 7-8, 2018, go to http://rippercon.com/
Chris G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 11:45 AM   #3
Debra Arif
Sausage brain
 
Debra Arif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,273
Default

Maybe something like this with the first lines-no bells or ten bells though-

the [something] had to have been about 1.05, by that time the woman [man] had [something] [something] murder[ed]
Debra Arif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 11:58 AM   #4
Chris G.
Registered User
 
Chris G.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 12,644
Default

Hi Deb

One of the difficulties is that we are unsure whether the loops of Swanson's scribble over the original wording belong to the first written words or whether they are the scribble. It's like Looking through the Looking Glass or a picture puzzle where you don't realise what it is but begin to see it after studying it for a long while. This might be completely my imagination but I am beginning to see "board school" or abbreviated "bd school" near the middle of line 3, and similarly two-thirds of the way along line 5, is he saying "accent" maybe talking about a man with an accent, or again is that merely the scribble overlay? Help!

Chris
__________________
Christopher T. George
Organizer, RipperCon 2018 in Baltimore
http://blog.casebook.org/chrisgeorge
For info about RipperCon in Baltimore, MD,
April 7-8, 2018, go to http://rippercon.com/
Chris G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 12:08 PM   #5
Debra Arif
Sausage brain
 
Debra Arif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,273
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris G. View Post
Hi Deb

One of the difficulties is that we are unsure whether the loops of Swanson's scribble over the original wording belong to the first written words or whether they are the scribble. It's like Looking through the Looking Glass or a picture puzzle where you don't realise what it is but begin to see it after studying it for a long while. This might be completely my imagination but I am beginning to see "board school" or abbreviated "bd school" near the middle of line 3, and similarly two-thirds of the way along line 5, is he saying "accent" maybe talking about a man with an accent, or again is that merely the scribble overlay? Help!

Chris
Yes, I know, Chris. that's what we are all trying to decipher isn't it, where the loops are just scribble. But its a pretty uniform scribble pattern so certain letters and words can be intelligently guessed at underneath. I think the word 'Bells' appears as a consequence of the scribble and isn't really there. In its place I see a time, at first I though 1.05 but now I'm certain it say 1.35.

Just my interpretation though. No one else need pay attention
I think the time of 1.35 is repeated on the lower lines too.
Debra Arif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 12:36 PM   #6
Debra Arif
Sausage brain
 
Debra Arif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,273
Default

My guess for the start of the first line, 2nd paragraph would be-


If [something] the 1.35 account
Debra Arif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 01:32 PM   #7
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO
Theorist & Speculator
 
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Shropshire UK
Posts: 6,516
Default

I think you are correct Deb about the 1.35
The marginalia appears alongside a mention of Lawende's sighting
Does it say "identify murderer" or "definitely murder" ?

I'll have another look on my PC as I'm a bit indisposed at the moment and only able
to post from this bloody Kindle
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 01:50 PM   #8
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO
Theorist & Speculator
 
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Shropshire UK
Posts: 6,516
Default

This ... had to have been at 1.35 ... by that time the woman (women?) had been
definitely murdered (both definitely murdered?)

If like the 1.35 account .......... that had detained (?)
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 01:57 PM   #9
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO
Theorist & Speculator
 
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Shropshire UK
Posts: 6,516
Default

Last line

... to have had the ... man detained
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2012, 02:56 PM   #10
Monty
---- ---
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,364
Default

My take -

This is unlikely to have been at 1.35 as by that time the woman.....


If this 1.35 account.....

Monty
Monty is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Liz Stride: Reasons For Her Presence On Berner Street Howard Brown The Crime Scenes 1 February 24th, 2010 06:59 PM
Liz Stride: Time of Death: DAVE YOST Howard Brown Elizabeth Stride 0 January 4th, 2010 09:25 PM
The Identification of Liz Stride: DAVE YOST Howard Brown Elizabeth Stride 0 January 4th, 2010 09:23 PM
Elizabeth Stride: Her Killer & Time of Death- DAVE YOST Howard Brown Elizabeth Stride 11 January 4th, 2010 12:24 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10 Beta 2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright @ Howard & Nina Brown 2015-2022