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The Community's Collective Wisdom "Scotland Yard was really no wiser on the subject than it was 15 years ago.."-F.G.Abberline,1903. The question is...are we ?

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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:17 PM   #11
Howard Brown
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My apologies it is late what I was trying to say was in effect that we should not compare "Jack"s mo with that of modern day serial killers because Jacks Mo was unique to him way back in 1888
Understoodand in my opinion, no question that you are correct.

.He could not copy anyones previous MO, whereas many modern day serial killers have copied some of those killers MO who have gone before. Hope that now make sense. I know what I meant ! lol

I wonder whether that's really applicable,Trevor, whether one serial killer copies another's m.o. intentionally....because to copy implies an intent to mimic or recreate from an original.
Be similar to, yes...to copy, not sure about that.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:28 PM   #12
Lynn Cates
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Hello Trevor. Thanks.

"The killer plunged the knife deep into the centre of the victims throat from behind and then forcibly drew the knife across"

Indeed? Haven't heard that one before.

Cheers.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:30 PM   #13
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Hello Howard. Would not legs need to be open for, say, genital mutilation or uterus removal to occur?

Cheers.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:32 PM   #14
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Hello Trevor. Do you honestly believe that a woman, fresh out of gaol, would solicit?

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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:33 PM   #15
Trevor Marriott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Brown View Post
My apologies it is late what I was trying to say was in effect that we should not compare "Jack"s mo with that of modern day serial killers because Jacks Mo was unique to him way back in 1888
Understoodand in my opinion, no question that you are correct.

.He could not copy anyones previous MO, whereas many modern day serial killers have copied some of those killers MO who have gone before. Hope that now make sense. I know what I meant ! lol

I wonder whether that's really applicable,Trevor, whether one serial killer copies another's m.o. intentionally....because to copy implies an intent to mimic or recreate from an original.
Be similar to, yes...to copy, not sure about that.
Of course they do when selecting victims in the first instance, then when deciding on the method of murder, and then the method of disposing of the body, If you are contemplating a murder for the first time would you not pre plan it perhaps and with that you would surely think and perhaps look up and read how other serial killers in the past had done it and look at how they got caught and try not to do the same.

Very few killers will pick up a protsitute and then have the sudden urge to kill them. I am not saying sometimes circumstances dont effect that but as a rule they dont.

Sadly throughout the ages prostitutes are from a vulnerable group in our society and as such are easy prey to killers.

There are several serial killers who have referred to Jack The Ripper when caught so clearly in many way they copy and try to emulate in some cases.

Peter Sutcliffe The Yorkshire Ripper, changed his MO on a number of occassion to incorporate stabbing his victims in the stomach and abdomens.
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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:41 PM   #16
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Hello Trevor. Do you honestly believe that a woman, fresh out of gaol, would solicit?

Cheers.
LC
You cannot discount that. my working experience with prostitutes is that they will never miss an opportunity to do business.

The mystery with Eddowes is the missing 44 mins. More so if all the witnesses re Mitre Square are correct. She couldnt have been there before 1.30am, where did she go, who was she with, did she find another customer somewhere else before heading back to The Square? This could account for the fact that no one saw her. Or did she decide to go to her lodgings and risk the wrath of Kelly and at the last minute and decided against it.

So many questions very few positive answers
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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:46 PM   #17
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Hello Trevor. Thanks.

"You cannot discount that. My working experience with prostitutes is that they will never miss an opportunity to do business."

I'm a bit of a workaholic, but I do close up shop at times.

"The mystery with Eddowes is the missing 44 mins. More so if all the witnesses re Mitre Square are correct. She couldnt have been there before 1.30am, where did she go, who was she with"

The chap who got her snoggered, I should think.

"did she find another customer somewhere else before heading back to The Square?"

Inquest showed no signs of any customers.

"This could account for the fact that no one saw her. Or did she decide to go to her lodgings and risk the wrath of Kelly and at the last minute and decided against it."

Did not the police see her turn left and not right? So, no.

Cheers.
LC
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Old March 13th, 2013, 09:57 PM   #18
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Hi Lynn

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Hello Trevor. Thanks.

"You cannot discount that. my working experience with prostitutes is that they will never miss an opportunity to do business."

I'm a bit of a workaholic, but I do close up shop at times.

Yes but you can afford to do that

"The mystery with Eddowes is the missing 44 mins. More so if all the witnesses re Mitre Square are correct. She couldnt have been there before 1.30am, where did she go, who was she with"

The chap who got her snoggered, I should think.

Not necessarily I would guess the sexaul act given those circumstances would not last very long so if she wasnt back at the square until 1.35am she could have found a customer, Perhaps in Goulston Street and took him under the archway and afterwards used the apron piece to wipe herself down and then discarded it

"did she find another customer somewhere else before heading back to The Square?"

Inquest showed no signs of any customers.

Did they specifically look ? and besides sex was not always by direct vaginal penetration in those days.

"This could account for the fact that no one saw her. Or did she decide to go to her lodgings and risk the wrath of Kelly and at the last minute and decided against it."

Did not the police see her turn left and not right? So, no.

Which way she turned is academic how do we know she didnt walk 10 yards to the right and then turned around and walked the other way. there were other routes back to Goulston Street besides what people suggest was the most direct route. How many times have you walked down the road and remembered something and turned around and gone back the way you came ?

Cheers.
LC
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Old March 13th, 2013, 10:03 PM   #19
Lynn Cates
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Hello Trevor. Thanks.

If Kate went to Goulston, then she took a detour. She would need to turn right from the gaol. She didn't. But why Goulston?

Yes, they checked the thighs for seminal fluid--standard procedure, given the prevalence of iterfemoral intercourse. Same with Polly. But she was clean because she had washed. (See Oram testimony on this issue.)

For the last, I don't count. After all, I am SUPPOSED to be absent minded. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC
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Old March 13th, 2013, 10:11 PM   #20
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Hi all. Very good thread. Much I agree with, some I don't (Hi Lynn!). I'm curious to know who Trevor had in mind when he mentioned that people have much invested in the 'butcher' theory. Outside of Lynn, who thinks a butcher killed Nichols/Chapman, I'm hard pressed to think of many butcher theory enthusiasts at present.

As for me, I think it likely that 7 women were killed by the same machine, though not necessarily all by the same hand. There's absolutely no question that Smith and Tabram were killed by the same men, no question that Nichols/Chapman were killed by the same man. In the case of Stride/Eddowes, neither of whom were a domestic, the balance of probabilities demands that they were killed - if not by the same hand - then by two hands working in tandem. And Kelly sure as hell wasn't a one-off. The other victims? I'd have to get back to you on that.

Yours truly,

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