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Old May 28th, 2013, 07:28 AM   #11
Lynn Cates
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Hello Jeff.

"If the body were on its left side like this with the arm under it I think the body would roll onto its back."

Not necessarily. The bent knees make that MUCH less likely.

Try it and you'll see what I mean.

Cheers.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 07:29 AM   #12
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Hello Christer.

"I think you may be correct. In such a case, the body would be more inclined to roll onto the back, although it would perhaps to some degree be dependent on how the legs were positioned and to what degree they served as counterweight."

Ah! You too?

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Old May 28th, 2013, 07:30 AM   #13
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Hello Jon.

"She's a dead weight so she won't move."

Quite.

Cheers.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 07:33 AM   #14
Lynn Cates
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Hello (again) Jon. Thanks.

"What is there to explain?"

If one needs to ask, it seems obvious that one has not grasped the full import of the cachous.

Cheers.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 07:42 AM   #15
Jeff Leahy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Cates View Post
Hello Jon.

"She's a dead weight so she won't move."

Quite.

Cheers.
LC
Is she dead weight? You accept yourself that she may have moved herself a little into a natural fetal position.

And Blackwell suggest she may have taken serval minutes to bleed to death?

Yours Jeff
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Old May 28th, 2013, 07:51 AM   #16
Jeff Leahy
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Just to play devils advocate here a little. Having given the problem further thought the Shoulder joint socket isnt in a fixed position. I can roll it 360 degrees (Obviously not inwards) and theres probably around six inches leaway in any direction which would surely complicate any accessment without actually seeing the body?

Yours Jeff
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Old May 28th, 2013, 08:10 AM   #17
Lynn Cates
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Hello Jeff. Thanks.

"Is she dead weight?"

Well, post mortem, yes.

"You accept yourself that she may have moved herself a little into a natural fetal position."

The medicos stated that she could have drawn her knees up, but not rolled over.

Cheers.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 08:20 AM   #18
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Default The devil, you say.

Hello (again) Jeff. Thanks.

"There's probably around six inches leeway in any direction which would surely complicate any assessment without actually seeing the body?"

I'll bite. Can you provide:

1. A range of values for each alternate to Jon's sketch (based on the medicos and police testimony, and to which both Christer and I subscribe)?

2. A description of the difference each would make vis-a-vis the forensics aspects of her position?

Cheers.
LC
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Old May 28th, 2013, 04:52 PM   #19
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Thankyou all for your input.
I asked Lynn about the right shoulder being directly above (perpendicular to the ground) the left shoulder, but I don't actually see it that way.
The main reason against this for me is that her right hand would not rest, relaxed, on her right breast.
If her right shoulder was upper most then her right arm would fall forward and her right hand would be on the ground.

It is because of this I think her body was twisted. Certainly her hips & legs were laid left-side-down but I think her upper torso was angled back at the waist.
The right elbow was hanging behind her as a sort of counter-lever so her hand could rest on her breast.
At least, that's what I am visualizing.
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The theory that the murderer is a lunatic is dispelled by the opinion given to the police by an expert in the treatment of lunacy patients......."If he's insane
" observed the medical authority, "he's a good deal sharper than those who are not".
Reynolds Newspaper, 4 Nov. 1888.
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Old May 28th, 2013, 05:00 PM   #20
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This is a quick sketch of what I mean.
The right shoulder is angled back from the upright, and the elbow is behind her with her hand resting on her right breast.

Does anyone else see it this way?



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Regards, Jon S.
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The theory that the murderer is a lunatic is dispelled by the opinion given to the police by an expert in the treatment of lunacy patients......."If he's insane
" observed the medical authority, "he's a good deal sharper than those who are not".
Reynolds Newspaper, 4 Nov. 1888.
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