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Old October 2nd, 2013, 07:20 PM   #1
Belladonna
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Default Too much of a coincidence?

My first real post so please be gentle with me...

I have always had doubts about Liz Strides place in the so called "Canonical 5". The difference in the neck wound and lack of mutilations. However the idea of the murderer being interrupted could explain the apparent differences.

What always sold me on Liz being a ripper victim was the proximity and timing of the Eddowes murder. Two murders within 15 minutes walking distance less than an hour apart...far too much of a coincidence.

But there is the possibility Stride was killed by someone else but Eddowes being killed was not just a mere coincidence. I have not seen this theory suggested before, but I'm sure it must have been.

Jack is sitting in a pub, blending in with the crowd, or even at home resting after a hard weeks work. Someone bursts in the door "Leather Aprons killed another one!". Jack feels the loss of control, someone else is taking credit for his work. He might even feel "safer" after all if Leather Apron has killed while he is in the pub, he has an alibi.

He finishes his drink, returns home to get his tools and goes out to create a "proper" victim.

The phrase "word spread like wildfire" would be tested with this theory, but I don't think it is beyond the realms of possibility that news of another murder could travel faster than the murderer himself.

I am not ruling out Liz as a Ripper victim just yet, but this theory is growing on me.

Any feedback appreciated!
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 07:36 PM   #2
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Nice first post, Donna...I'm certain people will tread gently on you and your suggestions here.

I like your line about Jack hearing about the Stride murder and then going out afterwards, somewhat inspired.
I have my own contentions about Stride not being a Ripper victim, but folks have been civil in how they respond to them.
Good crew here.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 07:39 PM   #3
Robert Linford
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Hi Belladonna

Nice idea, and it could even have inspired the Goulston St writing if, perchance, Jack was Jewish, i.e. "If you are going to accuse me, Jack, a Jew, of a murder that I didn't commit, then blame me for this one which I did commit." But I feel it's unlikely that he could have heard the news and reacted in such a short space of time.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 08:06 PM   #4
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO
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Hi Belladonna

I remember suggesting something similar in that Eddowes was the earliest of the murders (barring Stride) and suggested that JtR was in the vicinity of Berner St when he might have heard of the murder of Stride

It occurred to me that JtR may have been intent on killing on a certain date - perhaps governed by his work schedule - forcing him to find a victim that night before the police hunt became too widespread

It might explain why Eddowes was killed in City police territory

The alternative is that Stride was killed by someone else and JtR wasn't aware of the murder, coming across Eddowes in City territory, killing her, and making his way to Goulston St

I recall reference was made by other posters to the prevalence of murders by cutting the throat within the East End, which was posited as being rare enough to indicate both Stride and Eddowes were probably killed by the same hand

However, with the Ripper scare being current at the time, I don't think it unlikely that throat cutting was contemplated by other would-be murderers

I'll try and find the thread for you
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 08:34 PM   #5
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO
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Here it is Belladonna

For the purposes of the thread I assumed that Stride wasn't killed by JtR, but I forgot to mention that until later

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=10824&
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 08:38 PM   #6
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Thanks for the replies.

Robert - I agree the timing would be tight, but I envisage police whistles, people shouting down streets, news spreading in all directions.

Nemo - I have my own theory on the GSG which I'll save for another thread. If Jack was not planning on Killing that night it might explain a couple of things about the Eddowes murder. The increase in violence from the Chapman murder and the Apron.

Was the increase in mutilations just natural progression, or was he angrier this time? Maybe because he was interrupted with Stride or because he felt he had to compete with the other murder that night.

Was his routine "altered" is some way that he had to cut a bit of apron for cleaning afterwards? We have no evidence of him cleaning his blade at any other murder, why the deliberate act of cutting an apron this time and not before?

I do agree about the killing pattern, Jack seems to have employment.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 08:43 PM   #7
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Paul:

Thanks, as always, for helping out and finding the link for Belladonna.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 09:05 PM   #8
Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO
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No problem Howard

My standpoint on that thread was that the Ripper was abroad and had the intention of killing that night, and although some might say that was due to his periodic murderous intentions, it also may be connected to the date
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 09:19 PM   #9
Belladonna
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Thanks for the link Nemo, that was an enjoyable read.

I think Colin's statistics are conclusive (Although the Mathamatics of it made my head hurt!) the 2 murders that night almost certainly must be related.

Loved your "Fireworks" anecdote, if Jack knew of "Another murder" the statistics are turned on their head.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 11:22 PM   #10
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Hi Belladonna,

Were you aware that Stride and Eddowes lived on the same street at the time they were murdered? Incidentally, the fatal neck wounds inflicted to both were identical - left to right with a sharp knife across the carotid artery. There is also no evidence that they were killed with different knives, in spite of what you might read in a number of dubious books and articles. I believe it is indeed possible that Stride and Eddowes were killed by different men, but if that's the case, the men must have been working in tandem. The ridiculous number of "coincidences" demand that absolute probability of the crimes being related. That was the conclusion of the investigators at the time (except for the two or three who thought Eddowes was the copy cat murder), and nothing has changed since then.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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