Jack The Ripper Forums  - Ripperology For The 21st Century  

Go Back   Jack The Ripper Forums - Ripperology For The 21st Century > The Victims > Elizabeth Stride

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 3rd, 2013, 12:04 AM   #11
Belladonna
Registered User
 
Belladonna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 67
Default

Hi Tom.

I know they were both residents at Flower and Dean Street, I recall that is one of the favoured sites through profiling for Jack's residence too.

I know there are conflicting reports as to the type of knife used, but I was more referring to the cut on Stride was not as deep on one side?

As I said I do think any differences can be explained by him being interrupted.

I definitely think the Stride and Eddowes murders were linked but this theory provides for the being linked but by different killers.

I don't agree that if we have two murderers they have to be working in tandem, but they may have been. In fact two murderers working together would answer a lot of anomalies in the whole case.
Belladonna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 12:06 AM   #12
Dusty Miller
just curious
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 900
Default

In the absence of any formal thread acknowledging such, good to see that you're well enough to post again Tom.
__________________
Thanks for your time,
dusty miller
Dusty Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 11:10 AM   #13
Robert Linford
Researcher Extraordinaire
 
Robert Linford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,930
Default

Tom, good to see you back again.
Robert Linford is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 03:20 PM   #14
Tom_Wescott
Researcher and Award Winning Author
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Tulsa, Ok. USA
Posts: 5,182
Default

Hi Dusty and Robert, thank you for the warm welcome back. I am indeed feeling better and starting work back on my book, so if I'm not the forums mainstay I used to be, it will now be for all the right reasons.

Bella,

The knife used on Stride was no less sharp than that used on Eddowes, it merely wasn't used as deep and that's probably because of that pesky scarf she was wearing which, I'm sure you know, caught the blade. There are a number of factors to consider in the 'double event', one of which is the time of night. If we remove Stride completely and look at Eddowes, we find that she was killed much earlier in the night than most of the other Ripper victims. That alone doesn't mean too much, but then we consider that on the one night of his career that he was able to kill a woman at a relatively early hour, this also happens to be the same night that a woman of the same age, street, and calling, also happened to be dispatched by identical means within an hour and a short walk? That alone stretches "coincidence" to its very limits. But add on top of that how difficult it can actually be to murder a woman with a knife, and here we have two examples of a very practiced hand at work. And then the locations. Most of the victims were killed in quite similar locations - in fact, the stable gate outside of which Nichols was found is identical to the Dutfield's Yard gate, probably made by the same men. Stride was not the victim of a domestic murder, so she was either killed by Jack the Ripper (assuming he killed Eddowes), a copycat, or someone who wanted to kill Liz for whatever reason, happened to have a sharp knife on him, shared Jack's daring-do, and had the fortitude and skill to off her with one slice. Too many people underestimate what it takes for one person to kill another, to say nothing of the confidence it takes to know you've done it with one single cut. It's almost unheard of.

And again, there is no known difference between the knife that killed Stride and any other victim. That's a myth constantly perpetrated by modern authors. All that was known then and now about the knife that killed Stride is that it was sharp. The length or bluntness of the tip are not known because he did not stab her. Anything you read, from me or anyone else, regarding the knife that suggests anything other than it was sharp is pure speculation.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
Tom_Wescott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 04:12 PM   #15
Belladonna
Registered User
 
Belladonna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 67
Default

Hi Tom, thanks again for your reply. Nice to hear you are on the mend.

You are dealing in probabilities rather than possibilities.

I'm about 75% certain that Stride and Eddowes killer was the same man (OK you might have pushed me up to 80%).

I don't like to deal in absolutes, the only possible explanations I can see for considering 2 different murderers are as you suggested "Tandem killers" or my idea of "Stride's killing inspiring the Eddowes killing".

If the knife was "blunt" I think it would add to the different killers argument, but I don't think that both were done with a sharp blade to adds much to the same killer assumption, knifes after all are supposed to be sharp.

I think the double event is important to us as Ripperologists, it somehow helps justify our interest in the case 125 years on. It makes Jack worthy of our interest, a terrible fiend that wouldn't stop till he was satisfied.

I don't think my idea impacts or the horror of the double event, in some ways I find the idea of Jack choosing to go out and kill through jealousy of another killing just as terrifying as him killing two in the one night.

Just for comparison.

55% Tabram
99% Nichols
99% Chapman
99% Eddowes
90% Kelly

Is my current thoughts on the same killer.
Belladonna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 07:28 PM   #16
Tom_Wescott
Researcher and Award Winning Author
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Tulsa, Ok. USA
Posts: 5,182
Default

Hi Bella,

Of course I deal in probabilities vs possibilities as possibilities are endless. It seems you and I are in concert on our thoughts. My thoughts are that it's a likelihood Stride and Eddowes were killed by the same man. That's a probability. It's a possibility that they were killed by two men working in tandem. There are other possibilities, of course, but none as strong. Therefore, those are the two conclusions worth considering, unless like many you more enjoy the fantasy and creative angle of Ripperology, versus the serious pursuit, but I don't get that perception from you at all.

And you're absolutely spot on that the double event is crucial to unraveling the mystery. I've said that for countless years. Moreso than even Kelly, I might add. Here are my current percentages (following your lead here), always subject to change:

Smith: 75%
Tabram: 75%
Nichols: 99%
Chapman: 99%
Stride: 80% (with the caveat that it might be tandem)
Eddowes: 85%
Kelly: 99%

As for Coles and Mackenzie, I'll have to get back to you when I can make a special study of their murders.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
Tom_Wescott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 07:38 PM   #17
Howard Brown
Proprietor-Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Eagleville, Pa.
Posts: 76,488
Default

Tom:
Not to divert Donna's thread, I just wanted to say I was surprised to see you a little less inclined to consider Eddowes a Ripper victim than I thought you would be.
__________________
To Join JTR Forums, Contact :
Howard@jtrforums.com
Howard Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 07:43 PM   #18
Tom_Wescott
Researcher and Award Winning Author
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Tulsa, Ok. USA
Posts: 5,182
Default

Just being controversial, Howard. Actually, I'm just taking into consideration the fact that some of the authorities at the time didn't think Eddowes was a Ripper victim, so I apply a larger margin of error to her than, say, Nichols or Chapman. Same with Stride. Personally, I think it's a strong likelihood that all the murders from Smith to Kelly were related, but I'm less sure they were all by the same hand. This is in large part influenced by information that is not yet in the public domain. And again, I'm only NOT commenting on Coles and Mackenzie because I don't feel I have a qualified opinion on them at this time.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
Tom_Wescott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 07:51 PM   #19
Howard Brown
Proprietor-Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Eagleville, Pa.
Posts: 76,488
Default

Thanks for 'splainin' your position, Tom.
__________________
To Join JTR Forums, Contact :
Howard@jtrforums.com
Howard Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coincidence ? Howard Brown Richard Mansfield 5 September 1st, 2013 08:25 AM
Jerningham's Curious Coincidence Howard Brown The Victims 5 November 18th, 2012 04:01 PM
19th Century Woodblock Print Shows Modern Tower: Coincidence or Time Travel? admin tim Miscellaneous 0 April 6th, 2011 02:58 PM
A Coincidence : Mutilation Murder & The Sequieras Howard Brown Inquest and Doctors' Reports 4 August 26th, 2010 03:19 PM
Richard Mansfield: An Extraordinary Coincidence ? Howard Brown The Phenomenon of Jack The Ripper 1 April 30th, 2010 10:53 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10 Beta 2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright @ Howard & Nina Brown 2015-2022