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Old October 27th, 2013, 05:03 PM   #101
Tom_Wescott
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Originally Posted by Christer Holmgren
Are we sure that Halse even carried a lantern with him?
This is true. After all, at least one of his hands was taken up by carrying Eddowes' apron piece/sanitary knapkin all the way from Mitre Square to Goulston Street.

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Tom Wescott
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Old October 27th, 2013, 06:55 PM   #102
Christer Holmgren
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Originally Posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
This is true. After all, at least one of his hands was taken up by carrying Eddowes' apron piece/sanitary knapkin all the way from Mitre Square to Goulston Street.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
Thatīs an insanitary idea, Tom.

Christer Holmgren
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Old October 28th, 2013, 10:59 PM   #103
Adam Went
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Hi all,

Sorry to veer off the current trend of the conversation a bit, but just to respond to a couple of Tom's earlier points:

I'm sure PC Smith was more alert, but what was supposed to alert him about a couple talking on the street?

The police were aware of how Jack must have approached his victims from the previous murders. If there had been a couple standing in the area, I would think Smith would be paying them reasonably close attention. Certainly enough regular citizens seemed to be.

Long ("He was foreign and wore a hat") and Lawende ("I wouldn't know him again and all I can say about the woman I saw is she was dressed in dark clothing") were less vague than Brown? Who's kool-aid are you drinking?

Long, perhaps, but Lawende furnished a reasonably detailed account - perhaps you should have another read of it. There's a reason why he's top of the tree in regards to witnesses most likely to have been the Seaside Home witness several years later.

Brown, on the other hand, couldn't swear to his times, couldn't swear to the woman's identity and could barely describe the man at all - oh, and missed the more interesting action that was unfolding on Berner Street (or should have been) even though it must have almost been under his nose.

I don't know what kool-aid is (is it like Powerade?) but you shouldn't need it to see that: was Brown telling the truth? Most likely. Does Brown's statement achieve much? Not really.

The 'extra effort' thing is one of the 1000 myths that surround Stride. Medical evidence should only be considered when more reliable evidence is absent. In this case, it's not. We have Stride in or around no less than four establishments that sell alcohol on the night of her death. She's an alcoholic. It's a matter of adding two and two. If we want to put our faith into such medical evidence, then Martha Tabram never bore children (she had six) and Rose Mylett was both stone sober and drunk off her ass, depending on which doctor you believe. And Philips only checked for 'malt' liquor in Stride's case.

Of course she was in and around pubs, and that's why she was standing outside the IWMEC as well - they were the most likely places to be able to pick up clients. Many will argue the point that she was even soliciting that night but of that much, IMO, we can be fairly certain.

I don't recall reading from any of the multiple witnesses (more than any other murder) that saw her that night that she was seen drinking heavily or seen to be acting in a drunken manner at all, as was her Double Event counterpart, Catherine Eddowes.

Now i'm no doctor but I know that if somebody has drunk enough, you can smell it on them. You don't need to do a medical examination. In Stride's case, there was no mention of alcohol in regards to either scenario.

Now i'm not naive enough to think that she could go out an entire night without perhaps having a drink or two either, Tom. But I think we can be fairly sure from the available evidence that she was not blind rotten drunk or even close to it, and was in control of her faculties.

Not perplexing at all. The two victims previous to her were robbed, so it stands to reason Stride was as well. Whether or not she had any money left is another matter, but she was robbed.

I thought the story that Annie Chapman had been robbed was a bit of a red herring? In any case, the money she had earnt was all gone, and it must have gone somewhere.

Cheers,
Adam.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 06:56 PM   #104
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Im pretty sure Halse did speak to Long, otherwise he would not have cited the aprons location as inside the dwellings.

Monty
Agreed, whether it was under the arch, or several feet inside, it was still "in the building", as opposed to outside on the footpath.

Are we sure that the railings around the front were in existence in 1888?
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