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The Community's Collective Wisdom "Scotland Yard was really no wiser on the subject than it was 15 years ago.."-F.G.Abberline,1903. The question is...are we ?

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Old January 2nd, 2014, 01:34 AM   #11
Tom_Wescott
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Just why were Nichols clothes put back over her wounds.
Did Cross rearrange her clothing before Paul got there to try disguise his handywork or was it someone else?
I for one can't get my head around it.
If you were the murderer, you wouldn't bother to waste time rearranging the womans clothing when you can hear folks approaching, instinct would tell you to run, get away quick sticks.

Tim
Cross and Paul both pulled her clothes down for sake of decency.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 01:38 AM   #12
Tom_Wescott
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I see deliberate posing in one case and possibly in a second.

The one where I feel it's obvious is Kelly. Contrary to what Gareth might say, her hand did not end up lodged in her emptied cavity by way of the natural course of mutilation. Nor did a breast end up under her head this way, etc.

The possible case of posing is in regards to the items at Chapman's feet with Dr. Phillips thought might have been arranged. Without knowing why Phillips thought that, I'm not convinced it was intentional.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 03:16 AM   #13
Tim Atkinson
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Cross and Paul both pulled her clothes down for sake of decency.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Ah Ok, Thanks, Tom.

Tim.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 06:03 AM   #14
Christer Holmgren
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Cross and Paul both pulled her clothes down for sake of decency.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Ah Ok, Thanks, Tom.

Tim.
Paul was the one who did the decency pulling, it would seem.

But the more interesting thing is that when he did so, the clothes were already covering her wounds. They had been pulled down so as to cover the abdomen, and that must have come about after the mutilations to the abdomen.

And that time, it was not Paul. But Lechmere is a very good guess - although decency would not have been his aim ...
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 06:47 AM   #15
Lynn Cates
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Default rational behaviour

Hello Tim.

"If you were the murderer, you wouldn't bother to waste time rearranging the woman's clothing when you can hear folks approaching, instinct would tell you to run, get away quick sticks."

As any sane, rational person would.

Cheers.
LC
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 06:50 AM   #16
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Default in the way

Hello (again) Tim.

"No question of Kelly being posed Chris G. I fully agree with you. Either that or her arm had a spasm and leaped across her empty torso."

Or perhaps was in the bloody way and was pushed OUT of his way.

Cheers.
LC
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 06:51 AM   #17
Lynn Cates
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Hello Tom.

"Cross and Paul both pulled her clothes down for sake of decency."

Sensible, as always.

Cheers.
LC
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 10:01 AM   #18
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Not strictly on topic but we have the old canard that any sane person would scarpa rather than face an intruder.
If he ran like a headless chicken he would probably make noise - he would not be sure what the other man had seen, when the other man reached the body seconds later he may well call out 'murder' while there were beat policemen around - approaching the scene at time unknown.

I see evidence of posing in four cases where we have no reason to suppose the killer was interrupted. In most instances the posing would take a handful of seconds.
He was not setting a silver service table.

The posing is part of showing his power - his control over events, to shock and awe, just as the prime provable motivation for the killing was about control over life and death.

The 'non posing' of Nichols is suggestive of interruption. The killer hadn't got round to moving her legs apart and all he had to do was quickly throw her dress over her abdomen. The work of a split second.
Dr Llewellyn's tod fits this as well, whether it was Lechmere or someone just before he got there and did not notice.

Incidentally turning and facing your interrupted rather than running into who knows what, is also an indicactor of control. By turning he could to an extent control events - which I submit is what is seen as events play out to the death of Chapman and the closure of the Nichols inquest.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 12:38 PM   #19
Christer Holmgren
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Hello Tom.

"Cross and Paul both pulled her clothes down for sake of decency."

Sensible, as always.

Cheers.
LC
But not mentioning that there seems to have been an earlier pulling down of the clothes.

More senseless, if you ask me.
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Old January 2nd, 2014, 12:44 PM   #20
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But the more interesting thing is that when he did so, the clothes were already covering her wounds. They had been pulled down so as to cover the abdomen, and that must have come about after the mutilations to the abdomen.

Hi Christer,
That's the part that confuses me a little. Surely they would have noticed the mutilations to the abdomen when they rearranged her clothing. Or did they just plead ignorance and deal between them by saying nothing about it for fear of the Ripper?
Or, was she not mutilated at that point and the Ripper was in hiding waiting for them to go away, then finish the job. A few scenarios are there for the begging with that one.
Tim.
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