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Old May 5th, 2014, 02:54 PM   #1
Chris G.
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Jeff Leahy wrote this in the "Kate's apron~does it all add up?" thread --

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The only bag I can recall was the one carried by Goldstien, who of course gave himself up.. But the folk law seems to come from that incident.
The Goldstein sighting, of a man seen with a black bag in Berner Street, might indeed be the origin for the near ubiquitous sightings of suspects carrying such a bag from then onward, but it was by no means the first time such a bag was mentioned in the case. Earlier, Pigott was described as carrying "a black bag":

Morning Advertiser (London)
13 September 1888

"Pigott, the other man arrested, whose father was well known in Gravesend for many years as an insurance agent, was first seen in Gravesend on Sunday afternoon, about four o'clock. He then asked four young men, who were standing in the London-road, near Princess-street, where he could get a glass of beer, he having walked from Whitechapel. The young men told him. Following their directions he jumped into a tramcar going towards Northfleet. The young men noticed that he had a bad hand, and that he carried a black bag. He was without this bag when subsequently seen." [Emphasis added]
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Old May 5th, 2014, 08:55 PM   #2
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Thanks for that, Chris...
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Old May 6th, 2014, 01:03 PM   #3
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Of course the black bag mentioned by George Hutchinson in his description of "Astrakhan Man" might be another reason to doubt his supposed sighting, that he was "over egging" the description to make it fit what it seemed everyone's conception of the killer was.

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Old May 6th, 2014, 04:42 PM   #4
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Of course the black bag mentioned by George Hutchinson in his description of "Astrakhan Man" might be another reason to doubt his supposed sighting,
Where does Hutchinson mention a black bag?
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Old May 6th, 2014, 05:12 PM   #5
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Where does Hutchinson mention a black bag?
Thanks, Stephen, you are correct. What he said was, "He also had a kind of a small parcel in his left hand with a kind of strap round it." (From http://www.casebook.org/witnesses/w/...utchinson.html)

The artist responsible for the above sketch made it look more like a bag.
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Old May 6th, 2014, 06:13 PM   #6
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The artist responsible for the above sketch made it look more like a bag.
Perhaps the artist didn't get it all that wrong. To my eyes, the bag does look like a "kind-of" small parcel, with a "kind-of" strap around it. All I can say is, God bless George Hutchinson and his uncanny eye for detail!
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Old May 6th, 2014, 08:34 PM   #7
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It might come as a surprise to some, but the black leather bag was common, they were seen everywhere, by everyone, except Hutchinson of course.
What he describes is something wrapped in Amercian Cloth, which is "enameled oilcloth", essentially, fake leather.
If he was making it up, wouldn't he just keep it simple and use a black leather bag?

We shouldn't be surprised about Hutchinson's eye for detail or his memory for that matter. If we really want a surprise we should read Peter Sutcliffe's voluntary confession. Recounting details of his five year murder spree, in sequence, across 33 pages. All from memory.
Now that is something to be amazed about.

Hutchinson's 'eye' for detail pales by comparison.
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Old May 6th, 2014, 09:53 PM   #8
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Recounting details of his five year murder spree, in sequence, across 33 pages. All from memory.
Now that is something to be amazed about.


I've got another one, Jon.
Andrei Chikatilo's memory.
He detailed 55 murders from what I recall.

http://watchingrobertpickton88015.yu...2#.U2mElI3D-M8
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Old May 7th, 2014, 07:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
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We shouldn't be surprised about Hutchinson's eye for detail or his memory for that matter. If we really want a surprise we should read Peter Sutcliffe's voluntary confession. Recounting details of his five year murder spree, in sequence, across 33 pages. All from memory.
Now that is something to be amazed about.
Could that be because Sutcliffe had a personal interest in preserving the details so as to "re-live" his experiences? After all, other serial murderers, apart from Sutcliffe and Chikatilo, have exhibited similar proclivities. I daresay that many prolific murderers, even "singleton" killers, have equally durable and detailed memories of their crimes.
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Old May 7th, 2014, 08:09 AM   #10
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Quote:
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What he describes is something wrapped in Amercian Cloth
He described something that "looked as though" it was wrapped in dark American Cloth. So, we have a "kind-of" parcel, with a "kind-of" strap, that "looked as though" it was made of dark, fake leather. Notice, fake leather... presumably bought at the same sartorial emporium that supplied the spats, astrakhan coat and the watch with the heavy gold chain.
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If he was making it up, wouldn't he just keep it simple and use a black leather bag?
In the words of W.S. Gilbert, this might simply have been a case of Hutchinson adding "mere corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative" (Pooh-Bah, The Mikado)
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