Jack The Ripper Forums  - Ripperology For The 21st Century  

Go Back   Jack The Ripper Forums - Ripperology For The 21st Century > The Community's Collective Wisdom

The Community's Collective Wisdom "Scotland Yard was really no wiser on the subject than it was 15 years ago.."-F.G.Abberline,1903. The question is...are we ?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old May 17th, 2014, 06:10 AM   #11
Lynn Cates
Researcher & Author
 
Lynn Cates's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7,240
Default mistakes

Hello Howard. #7 looks correct too.

The police were good and worked hard; nevertheless, mistakes occurred.

Cheers.
LC
Lynn Cates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 07:29 AM   #12
Howard Brown
Proprietor-Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Eagleville, Pa.
Posts: 76,555
Default

The lack of credible evidence is the bane of Ripperology. Without it the Ripperologist necessarily resorts to coincidence and conjecture.
__________________
To Join JTR Forums, Contact :
Howard@jtrforums.com
Howard Brown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 09:47 AM   #13
Howard Brown
Proprietor-Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Eagleville, Pa.
Posts: 76,555
Default

Personally, I'm not so sure the underlined sentence is accurate....fwiw


Unfortunately, given the circumstances, the police failure was all too predictable. The murderer was a stranger to his victims so inquiries into their social relationships yielded no clue to his identity or motive, and in 1888 modern aids to detection like fingerprinting, DNA testing and psychological profiling were unknown or undeveloped.
__________________
To Join JTR Forums, Contact :
Howard@jtrforums.com
Howard Brown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 10:06 AM   #14
Sam Flynn
Owl Catcher
 
Sam Flynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,920
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Brown View Post
The main difficulty with the Chapman theory is that because he did not become a suspect until 1903 no accurate information as to his whereabouts at the times of the Ripper murders could ever be procured.
That there was little accurate information as to his whereabouts could be applied to many suspects, so I tend to disagree with Sugden's otherwise cogent analysis on this point. There are at least two difficulties wrt Chapman to which I'd attach more importance: Firstly, he was a very different kind of murderer to JTR; and, secondly, his candidacy has been boosted by misconceptions of both his and the Ripper's alleged surgical "prowess". Not knowing exactly where he was in 1888 is, of course, a factor, but I'd put it a little further down my list.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen"
(F. Nietzsche)

Sam Flynn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 10:07 AM   #15
Howard Brown
Proprietor-Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Eagleville, Pa.
Posts: 76,555
Default

Thanks for chipping in, G-Man....that's exactly what the thread/discussion needs !
__________________
To Join JTR Forums, Contact :
Howard@jtrforums.com
Howard Brown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 10:50 AM   #16
Howard Brown
Proprietor-Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Eagleville, Pa.
Posts: 76,555
Default

Littlechild’s suspicions against Tumblety seem to have been partly grounded in the doctor’s homosexuality and in his own belief that those given to ‘contrary sexual instinct’ were also prone to cruelty. Certainly there was never any substantive evidence to connect Tumblety with any of the murders. Had that been the case the police would have charged him with it or, after his escape, sought his extradition.
__________________
To Join JTR Forums, Contact :
Howard@jtrforums.com
Howard Brown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 11:55 AM   #17
Cris Malone
Historian
 
Cris Malone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Jackson, Tennessee
Posts: 2,441
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Brown View Post
Personally, I'm not so sure the underlined sentence is accurate....fwiw


Unfortunately, given the circumstances, the police failure was all too predictable. The murderer was a stranger to his victims so inquiries into their social relationships yielded no clue to his identity or motive, and in 1888 modern aids to detection like fingerprinting, DNA testing and psychological profiling were unknown or undeveloped.
Because the murderer of none of these women was apprehended we'll never really know if each one's killer was known to them... but, also because not a single one was solved, Sugden's determination that he was likely a stranger is a valid and reasonable thesis. Otherwise, it is difficult to explain why the whole series remained unsolved. The methods of detection used by the police had worked for the most part when perpetrator and victim were previously connected.
__________________
Best Wishes,
Cris Malone
______________________________________________
"Objectivity comes from how the evidence is treated, not the nature of the evidence itself. Historians can be just as objective as any scientist."
Cris Malone is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 01:08 PM   #18
Sam Flynn
Owl Catcher
 
Sam Flynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,920
Default All roads lead to... home?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cris Malone View Post
The methods of detection used by the police had worked for the most part when perpetrator and victim were previously connected.
Interesting to note, in this context, that Henry Crawford, solicitor at the Eddowes inquest, noted that Goulston Street was (in his words) on a "direct route" from Mitre Street to Flower-and-Dean Street, where Eddowes and John Kelly had been known to stay. He also quizzed the lodging-house deputy as to the comings and goings of residents at around 2AM on the morning of the Eddowes murder.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen"
(F. Nietzsche)

Sam Flynn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 02:41 PM   #19
Cris Malone
Historian
 
Cris Malone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Jackson, Tennessee
Posts: 2,441
Default

Met officials were at Cooney's in the pre-dawn hours the very morning of the murders making inquiries -- even though they knew nothing about Eddowes or her antecedents at the time. They shook all of the major lodging houses down. The usual motives and possible suspects (acquaintances) were investigated individually with each murder, no matter how long the tally got.

It should be remembered that after all of this, some of the police officials (Macnaghten ans probably Swanson) thought Sadler had killed Coles, even after he was apparently cleared of the 1888 murders.
__________________
Best Wishes,
Cris Malone
______________________________________________
"Objectivity comes from how the evidence is treated, not the nature of the evidence itself. Historians can be just as objective as any scientist."
Cris Malone is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2014, 03:29 PM   #20
Howard Brown
Proprietor-Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Eagleville, Pa.
Posts: 76,555
Default

Today the Ripper stirs human imagination worldwide. He is the basis for one of the greatest and blackest of popular legends. More than any other factor it was the failure of the police to catch him that led to our present fascination with the case. Myth feeds on the gaps in history. And in the case of the Ripper’s identity it is less a gap than a yawning pit into which Ripperologists, novelists and film-makers can toss any theory they like as long as they are not required to substantiate it.
__________________
To Join JTR Forums, Contact :
Howard@jtrforums.com
Howard Brown is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Philip Sugden On Frederick Abberline Howard Brown Frederick Abberline 32 September 5th, 2013 04:35 AM
Legacy of The Ripper, - Sequel to A Study in Red Rescue Dog Ripper Fiction 33 August 30th, 2010 01:57 PM
Philip Sugden on Jack the Ripper admin tim Ripper Non-fiction 1 November 6th, 2009 11:51 PM
The Philip Experiment Black Dahlia Ghosts and Apparitions 19 July 17th, 2009 02:50 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10 Beta 2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright @ Howard & Nina Brown 2015-2022