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Old August 3rd, 2014, 08:15 AM   #11
Trevor Marriott
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Trevor:

Would bodies originally taken from medical facilities be found clothed with identifying marks on them later on ?
Of course not.
Its almost as if its being suggested that the bodies were first 'undressed' for their use/examining...and then redressed and dumped into the river, which in itself was risk for above board medical practitioners.

The white cloth the limb was wrapped in was found to be a portion of an item of ladies underclothing, the waistband of which had the name L.E. Fisher written along it. Fastened to another portion of the material was a piece of tweed seemingly torn from the right breast area of a lady's long Ulster coat.

Read Deb's story on Elizabeth Jackson, here :

http://www.casebook.org/victims/jackson.html
Howard
I have read Debs story and we have had long discussions on this in the past between us. But clearly from what I recall all of the thames torso bodies were not the victims of murder. I think death by other means were discussed ie, botched abortions etc.

But I am not prepared to go over it all again. All I would say to interested parties is not to readily accept the original facts as being correct. The coroner directed the jury to return those verdicts based on little evidence to support such verdicts.
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 08:24 AM   #12
Debra Arif
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Trevor, I only commented because you mentioned my name and you have just spent the last 100 pages of a thread on casebook lecturing several intelligent, knowledgeable posters like Cris, Jon and wickerman on using primary and secondary sources! After all that bleating on about cherry picking unreliable newspaper sources to support a theory, you get all excited when a newspaper article that supports one of your theories is posted and gloat that a secondary source agrees with you! You can't see the comedy and sheer hypocricy in that?


Spot on, How. But Trevor chooses to ignore evidence like that that has been mentioned to him time and time again and always will. Only Trevor is allowed a viewpoint, you should know that by now.
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 08:27 AM   #13
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Oh, and Trevor never has the good grace to remember points made by people that he was unable counter at the time and chose instead to go off in a huff. We always start back at square one.
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 08:30 AM   #14
Debra Arif
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And I'm done- apart from thank you very much for the kind words, Cris.
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 02:08 PM   #15
Trevor Marriott
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Trevor, I only commented because you mentioned my name and you have just spent the last 100 pages of a thread on casebook lecturing several intelligent, knowledgeable posters like Cris, Jon and wickerman on using primary and secondary sources! After all that bleating on about cherry picking unreliable newspaper sources to support a theory, you get all excited when a newspaper article that supports one of your theories is posted and gloat that a secondary source agrees with you! You can't see the comedy and sheer hypocricy in that?

Spot on, How. But Trevor chooses to ignore evidence like that that has been mentioned to him time and time again and always will. Only Trevor is allowed a viewpoint, you should know that by now.
Intelligent and knowledgeable now I know you have lost the plot.

I merely pointed out to you previously there are other ways of looking at these bodies but of course when you don't want to because you are not able to see out of the box then there is no hope.

Even the press in the article quoted came up with that suggestion isnt this thread about a hoax?

I choose not to ignore nothing, unlike others I try to prove or disprove facts and evidence, which is what I have been doing for the past 30 years so I think I have got the hang of it by now. Its a pity you and some of those intelligent and knowledgeable people don't try to show some of those intelligent and knowledgeable qualities at times and apply some sensible reasoning and applied logic to some of the important parts of this ripper mystery,
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 03:10 PM   #16
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Even the press in the article quoted came up with that suggestion isnt this thread about a hoax?
-Trevor Marriott-

Not about a definite hoax, as in that certainty was established, but whether it was or wasn't a hoax, without certainty.
Actually, no one ever knew for certain what to make of the Pinchin Street Torso....and I dare say we still don't.

Was it the remains of a (premeditated) murder victim ?
Was it a victim of the same fellow who had murdered all or most of all of the women we normally attribute to Jack The Ripper ?
Was it the remains of a botched operation of sorts ( no premeditation ) ?
Was it committed by another killer ( not the Ripper ) ?
Or was it a body removed from a medical facility by a couple of jerks...taken to the area where a lot of murders had occurred....and left there just to see the reaction ?

Years ago, I posted an article predating the WM....where some jerk students went down one of the streets in West Philly, leaving body parts in postal boxes and on the top steps of the porches...they did it for a joke.
Would med students in London do something like that in 1888 with an entire torso ?
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 04:07 PM   #17
Debra Arif
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Intelligent and knowledgeable now I know you have lost the plot.

I merely pointed out to you previously there are other ways of looking at these bodies but of course when you don't want to because you are not able to see out of the box then there is no hope.

Even the press in the article quoted came up with that suggestion isnt this thread about a hoax?

I choose not to ignore nothing, unlike others I try to prove or disprove facts and evidence, which is what I have been doing for the past 30 years so I think I have got the hang of it by now. Its a pity you and some of those intelligent and knowledgeable people don't try to show some of those intelligent and knowledgeable qualities at times and apply some sensible reasoning and applied logic to some of the important parts of this ripper mystery,

No Trevor, you have an agenda. Let's not pretend you haven't. You've been stood next to that Swiss clock too long.
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 04:11 PM   #18
Debra Arif
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Brown View Post
Even the press in the article quoted came up with that suggestion isnt this thread about a hoax?
-Trevor Marriott-

Not about a definite hoax, as in that certainty was established, but whether it was or wasn't a hoax, without certainty.
Actually, no one ever knew for certain what to make of the Pinchin Street Torso....and I dare say we still don't.

Was it the remains of a (premeditated) murder victim ?
Was it a victim of the same fellow who had murdered all or most of all of the women we normally attribute to Jack The Ripper ?
Was it the remains of a botched operation of sorts ( no premeditation ) ?
Was it committed by another killer ( not the Ripper ) ?
Or was it a body removed from a medical facility by a couple of jerks...taken to the area where a lot of murders had occurred....and left there just to see the reaction ?

Years ago, I posted an article predating the WM....where some jerk students went down one of the streets in West Philly, leaving body parts in postal boxes and on the top steps of the porches...they did it for a joke.
Would med students in London do something like that in 1888 with an entire torso ?
Thing is, How bodies used for medical specimens were recognizable to other experts as such, because of certain treatments the bodies underwent before students got their hands on them.
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Old August 3rd, 2014, 04:51 PM   #19
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Debs:
You're right....I just went a little apeshit there.

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Old August 3rd, 2014, 06:22 PM   #20
Debra Arif
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Debs:
You're right....I just went a little apeshit there.

XXXXXXXXXXX
No you didn't, How, they are all options worth considering, but the abortion angle can be discounted in definitely three of the cases and was at the time and the medical angle was discounted by experts there at the time too.
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