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Old September 28th, 2014, 05:15 AM   #11
Rob Clack
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I think it first appeared in 'The Man Who Hunted Jack the Ripper' by Stewart Evans and Nicholas Connell, Debs
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Old September 28th, 2014, 05:26 AM   #12
Debra Arif
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I think it first appeared in 'The Man Who Hunted Jack the Ripper' by Stewart Evans and Nicholas Connell, Debs
Hi Rob
The first book to say that it wasn't Lydia Hart after all, you mean?
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Old September 28th, 2014, 05:38 AM   #13
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Hi Rob
The first book to say that it wasn't Lydia Hart after all, you mean?
Yeah, sorry, still half asleep
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Old September 28th, 2014, 06:35 AM   #14
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Hi Cicatrice,
Interesting username. Are you interested in the torso cases? Elizabeth Jackson was identified by the trace of an old cicatrice on her wrist.
Thanks The full name I usually use online is cicatricekodeia (kodeia is a Greek word from which we get 'codeine') I'm very interested in the torso cases - partly because I'm surprised more people haven't seemed to have noticed that there could be 2 serial killers at work...my best friend thinks I should write a book but he has no idea how much research would be involved - he thought I could get it done on a day trip to London!! I read of Lydia at some point in the 90s in a library book and made a note of it in my own personal 'Ripper File' and was wondering why I'd never read it again..now I know - thanks folks! I need to get a new A-Z, mine's a bit out of date now...One thing that made me doubt she was a prostitute, at least not an East End one, was the fact that she apparently had well tended hands - I somehow can't imagine a prostitute from that area going for a regular manicure!
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Old September 28th, 2014, 06:41 AM   #15
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Yeah, sorry, still half asleep
Thanks Rob
I just looked at CSI Whitechapel too and in there is mentioned that Lydia Hart's name was mentioned as a possible identification but that nothing was proved and the body never identified. No mention that later research has shown Lydia to have been alive. That's two recent books that Lydia Hart's name as a possible identification is mentioned.
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Old September 28th, 2014, 06:53 AM   #16
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Thanks The full name I usually use online is cicatricekodeia (kodeia is a Greek word from which we get 'codeine') I'm very interested in the torso cases - partly because I'm surprised more people haven't seemed to have noticed that there could be 2 serial killers at work...my best friend thinks I should write a book but he has no idea how much research would be involved - he thought I could get it done on a day trip to London!! I read of Lydia at some point in the 90s in a library book and made a note of it in my own personal 'Ripper File' and was wondering why I'd never read it again..now I know - thanks folks! I need to get a new A-Z, mine's a bit out of date now...One thing that made me doubt she was a prostitute, at least not an East End one, was the fact yuifficult area of stthat she apparently had well tended hands - I somehow can't imagine a prostitute from that area going for a regular manicure!
I think generally people are aware of the torso cases, Cicatrice, there's been many discussions about their relationship to the Whitechapel murders (or not) and their relationship to each other too. Some around here would even have you think they aren't murder victims at all
As I just noted, the Lydia Hart identification has still been mentioned in at least two recent publications without mention of her being found to have been still alive, so it's still out there!
Elizabeth Jackson was a homeless prostitute who was living rough in Battersea Park and the embankment but her hands and nails were said to be "white and clean and nicely shaped."
Some newspapers at the time of the torso discoveries went as far as to report in one case that the doctors had suggested the victim's slim, delicately shaped calves and ankles showed she was a woman of superior class!
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Old September 28th, 2014, 07:16 AM   #17
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That surprises me about Elizabeth's hands although maybe their definition of well cared for hands is different to what we would think today as despite also saying this about the Pinchin St torso they thought that she could be a factory worker?! Which seems a bit of a contradiction!
I should confess here that I'm quite a bit behind with the Ripper case as I haven't been able to buy any new books for a good few years due to health and mobility problems preventing me from going into town and I can't buy them online as have no bank account/credit card etc - this is one of the reasons I've signed up here so that I can get up to date...so please be patient folks!
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Old September 28th, 2014, 07:22 AM   #18
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Oh, and to clarify, I meant that the average person on the street has never heard of the Torso murders - everybody's heard of Jack the Ripper (although some think he's a myth) but onlt Ripper students seem to know about the Torso cases...
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Old September 28th, 2014, 09:03 AM   #19
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Thanks Rob
I just looked at CSI Whitechapel too and in there is mentioned that Lydia Hart's name was mentioned as a possible identification but that nothing was proved and the body never identified. No mention that later research has shown Lydia to have been alive. That's two recent books that Lydia Hart's name as a possible identification is mentioned.
Mine and Phils is one of them Got the Infirmary record someone. See if I can dig it out.

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Old September 28th, 2014, 09:17 AM   #20
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The copies of the Infirmary records aren't very clear but the basics are this:

St Georges in the East Workhouse Infirmary

Admission 9 September 1889

Lydia Hark, born 1849, no reason given for admission.

Date of Discharge 13 September 1889.

There is a possibility that this is not Lydia Hart but someone with a very similar name, but I think it is her.

There is an 1888 entry for Lydia Hart born 1849.

The St George in the East Workhouse Infirmary.

Date of admission 16 April 1888, presumed malady: Fistula. Date of Discharge 18 April 1888. Age is given as 39.

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