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The Community's Collective Wisdom "Scotland Yard was really no wiser on the subject than it was 15 years ago.."-F.G.Abberline,1903. The question is...are we ?

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Old July 30th, 2017, 03:43 PM   #1
Alan Baird
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Default Francis Cole & Royal Mint PC

Hello,
This is just a minor point but I thought it might be of interest to somebody.

I have just read an old casebook dissertation called, ''My Valentine by Bernie Brown,'' from the year 2000. It relates to the incident where PC Ernest William Thompson found Francis Coles dying, at 02.15am on the 13th of February in 1891. It recorded the Police personnel who attended this infamous incident.

It mentions a Police Constable who was stationed nearby in the Royal Mint and stated there were only 2 Police Constables from H division that were allocated these duties. It also references another article, ''The Royal Mint by Charles Olivers in 1902'' which is relevant to this subject but I have been unable to find it.

I believe the following officer was either the Police Constable that was on duty that morning in the Royal Mint or else he was the other Police Constable that was on H division's establishment to the Royal Mint.

PC 372H Edward Papworth.

[a] Joined 12/3/1877, PC K [Bow] division.
[b] 12/4/1878, resigns from the Met. Police to do, ''Service with the Colours.'' The details of this military service are unknown.
[c] 5/8/1878, re-joins the Met. Police, PC K [Bow] division.
[d] 30/6/1880, transfers to H [Whitechapel] division, collar no 372H.
[e] 1887, awarded the Jubilee medal for 1887 whilst serving with H division.
[f] 3/2/1890, gave evidence at the Old Bailey trial [PC372H] Charles Feeley, deception and perjury, sentenced to 5 years.
[g] 1897, awarded the Jubilee clasp for 1897 whilst serving with H division.
[h] 13/11/1897, transfers to G [Finsbury] division for service with the Parcel Post Office.

[i] 4/1/1898, transfers to H [Whitechapel] for ''Special duties with the Royal Mint.''

[j] 1902, awarded the Coronation medal for 1902 whilst serving with H division.
[k] 10/8/1903, retired from the Met and H division on pension.
All the above is evidenced by his pension records etc and hopefully somebody might find the information of interest.

regards,
Alan.

Last edited by Alan Baird; July 30th, 2017 at 03:47 PM. Reason: missed some words
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Old July 30th, 2017, 04:05 PM   #2
Howard Brown
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Thanks for sharing, Alan...
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Old July 30th, 2017, 04:14 PM   #3
Gary Barnett
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Hi Alan,

There was an article in The Graphic of 4th Feb., 1893 that contained this sketch of a Sgt. Durrant who was stationed at the mint at the time:

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Old July 30th, 2017, 05:56 PM   #4
Alan Baird
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Default Sgt Durrant great sketch

Hi Gary and Howard,
The sketch of Sergeant Durrant is really good and I would imagine the duties of the Metropolitan Police at the Royal Mint were solely to do with the security of the premises ie manning the main entrance. The article only says there was a policeman on duty all night at the Royal Mint Refinery and that he did not see or hear anything unusual until the blowing of police whistles. The article clearly states that there were 2 x H division Police Constables especially employed at the Royal Mint but that seems a very low number of Police Constables to guard the premises. I wonder if the military were also present to guard the Mint, especially as it was the Royal Mint, so it might have been classed as Crown property. The Police Constable on duty would have obviously been questioned, at the time of the murder, as he was a potential witness and was in the immediate area of the murder scene.
I am kind of guessing with much of this as I have only read this one article but I find it quite interesting and hopefully I can find out more.
Alan.
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Old July 30th, 2017, 06:03 PM   #5
Gary Barnett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Baird View Post
Hi Gary and Howard,
The sketch of Sergeant Durrant is really good and I would imagine the duties of the Metropolitan Police at the Royal Mint were solely to do with the security of the premises ie manning the main entrance. The article only says there was a policeman on duty all night at the Royal Mint Refinery and that he did not see or hear anything unusual until the blowing of police whistles. The article clearly states that there were 2 x H division Police Constables especially employed at the Royal Mint but that seems a very low number of Police Constables to guard the premises. I wonder if the military were also present to guard the Mint, especially as it was the Royal Mint, so it might have been classed as Crown property. The Police Constable on duty would have obviously been questioned, at the time of the murder, as he was a potential witness and was in the immediate area of the murder scene.
I am kind of guessing with much of this as I have only read this one article but I find it quite interesting and hopefully I can find out more.
Alan.
Hi Alan,

I once read a press report concerning a military guard at The Mint who had bayoneted a woman. I can't seem to find it now.

Gary
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Old July 30th, 2017, 06:17 PM   #6
Alan Baird
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Default do you get the point

Hi Gary,
That sounds horrific and very unusual and your Sergeant Durrant appears to be :-

Police Sergeant William Durrant,
Warrant number 48388,
Joined 13/5/1867,
Retired 23/4/1894 as a Police Sergeant with H division.
So he retired on pension approximately one year after the sketch or article.

Alan.
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Old July 30th, 2017, 06:22 PM   #7
Gary Barnett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Baird View Post
Hi Gary,
That sounds horrific and very unusual and your Sergeant Durrant appears to be :-

Police Sergeant William Durrant,
Warrant number 48388,
Joined 13/5/1867,
Retired 23/4/1894 as a Police Sergeant with H division.
So he retired on pension approximately one year after the sketch or article.

Alan.
Thanks, Alan!
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Old July 31st, 2017, 10:41 AM   #8
Alan Baird
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Default one conclusion

Hi,
I have come to the conclusion that where the army was given the primary responsibility of protecting a specific Crown property, then the Civil presence ie Metropolitan Police, may have been downgraded to a more symbolic presence.
That would then explain why the article states that only 2 'H' division Police Constables were attached to the Royal Mint.

Therefore, the opposite is true where the primary responsibility of protecting other Government buildings and Institutions and even individuals was given solely to the Metropolitan Police ie Old Bailey, Houses of Parliament etc then that is where the vast majority of Metropolitan Police officers on ''Special Duties,'' would have been be located.

There was a Police Constable Jesse Barlow who was attached to 'A' or Whitehall division and was assigned to the Windsor Castle Precinct for many years. There were, reportedly, 5 Police Constables from Whitehall division serving in the Castle Precinct. 'A' division was responsible for providing the Metropolitan Policemen that assisted in guarding Queen Victoria/Windsor Castle. In the England Census of 1891, you can find PC Jesse Barlow had travelled with the Royal Party to Osbourne House on the Isle of Wight and was residing in the Police Lodge at Kings Quay. Obviously, Windsor Castle was guarded by detachments from the Army and I believe units also served at Osbourne House when the Queen was in residence. Therefore only having 5 Police Constables dealing in this important role .... fits in with the above theory, that the Army had the primary responsibility and so the Metropolitan Police only provided a token number of Police officers so that the Civil Authority was represented.
It all sounds so obvious but having so few Police Officers involved, did not seem right.

I hope that all sounds OK.....
Alan.

Last edited by Alan Baird; July 31st, 2017 at 10:44 AM. Reason: missed a word
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Old July 31st, 2017, 11:01 AM   #9
Alan Baird
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Default photo of PC Jesse Barlow

I am not sure if I have attached this photograph of PC Jesse Barlow onto this post properly so if I have made a mess of it ... then obviously it will not be shown.
Alan.
PC Jesse Barlow is 3rd from the left and is wearing the his medals. The photograph is dated from mid 1897 to approximately the beginning of 1902. I don't know what Constabulary the other Police Constables are from.
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Last edited by Alan Baird; July 31st, 2017 at 11:05 AM. Reason: added in more info
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Old July 31st, 2017, 03:52 PM   #10
Alan Baird
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Default Sadler outside the Royal Mint

Hi,
I have just read an article which states that James Thomas Sadler who was the main suspect in the murder of Francis Coles was spotted on the pavement outside the Royal Mint on the Saturday morning. Sadler was ''drunken and bloodied'' and was questioned by Sergeant Edward regarding his wounds and the circumstances in which they occurred.

Later Sadler was arrested by Detective Sergeants Don and Gill on suspicion of the murder of Francis Coles and this was partly due on the evidence from Sergeant Edward....... and also other witnesses.

It is only speculation by it is possible that PC 372H Edward Papworth could have witnessed this incident......long shot I know but possible.

Alan.
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