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12. Misogynist "A prostitute is a murder victim waiting to happen."

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Old February 21st, 2010, 10:07 AM   #11
Howard Brown
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Tim:

On second thought, there are so many articles with murder victims ( not to mention the numerous search terms one can concievably use to dredge up stories which may be otherwise obscured ) that when I find 'em, I'll put them on. Its a daunting challenge and too time consuming at the moment.

I will just say that there are no skeins of murders prior to 1888 which finds 3 victims of a savage killer within a 30 day period in Britain ( Sticking to the Nichols-Chapman-Eddowes time line). This is obvious I know, but mentioned only in light of the fact that its possible that whatever propelled the Whitechapel Murderer might be unique viz. those other murders, one-offs and skeins of two or three,if any, which involved similar mutilations.

I'll give it my best Tim, to find murders of non-prosses all the same.
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Old February 21st, 2010, 11:31 AM   #12
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Very good responses, everyone.

Me personally, I'm divided. On the one hand, I do think it is very likely possible that the murderer was able to socialize and interact (and even be intimate)with women, based on how it seems he is able to approach and communicate with his victims (For example, the numerous witnesses in the Stride murder see her talking to several men on her murder night, but who is to say one of those men were one and the same and they were talking for a long period of time before he killed her). However, when I read the reports of the murders and realize that there was no evidence of actual sexual assault and that the sexual organs were specifically targeted, it looks like the work of a man who has a definite hatred/fear of women and wouldn't be able to form any kind of relationships with them.
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Old February 21st, 2010, 02:42 PM   #13
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However, when I read the reports of the murders and realize that there was no evidence of actual sexual assault and that the sexual organs were specifically targeted, it looks like the work of a man who has a definite hatred/fear of women and wouldn't be able to form any kind of relationships with them.
******************

Or maybe he could form relationships with them ( at home ) but not achieve an erection ( again,at home) and took out his frustration ( to the extreme) in the way he did.
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Old February 21st, 2010, 04:03 PM   #14
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Default Copycats and Male/ Female criminal teams

Here's the Old Bailey transcript from the murder trial ( once more...a male and a female in the same hot water over a murder ) concerning Hannah Brown:

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brows...7&terms=hannah brown#highlight

I thought I would add the next case..which also involves a man and a woman involved in a case of extortion or the big shakedown. Very interesting that the case which occurred just two months prior...the Hannah Brown case...is mentioned by the guilty man in this case as ye shall see..

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brows...9&terms=hannah brown#highlight
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Old February 21st, 2010, 06:07 PM   #15
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Let me confuse Howard even more on this thread.

I have been rereading The People of the Abyss and at one point therein, Jack London's guide shows him a group of women sleeping on park benches, telling him that they would each sell herself for a loaf of stale bread.

Other serial killers have had problems with women "who reminded them of their mother's promiscuity". So, could Jack have merely been sensitive to immoral women, killing them as he found them, where the first ones he found at such hours were prostitutes on the prowl? Maybe the differentiation was that the actual prostitutes solicited him, whereas the others did not, but would have responded positively to him had he solicited them.

This actually sounds pretty reasonable, since defining 'prostitute' in the East End in 1888 isn't as easy as it first appears to be.
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Old February 21st, 2010, 07:37 PM   #16
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Tim:

Thats only what the guide said and not the women themselves who said that. I believe Colin Roberts noticed that some time back. Its something Mr. Rumbelow repeats on his tours.

The second part of your post...the part where you didn't repeat the Jack London fiction...heh heh... actually makes sense. It may also have been a matter of the Ripper waiting for the first woman to approach him or get into some conversation with him.

Who schtups for stale bread ? You silly Texan.
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Old February 21st, 2010, 08:40 PM   #17
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Tim:

It's a possibility, but then if when Jack was a young chap his mother had gone out soliciting, it probably would have been to help put food in his mouth - so I fail to see how he could be angered by the behaviour of prostitutes if this was the case. He would have grown up with it, would have been used to it and might even have entered the criminal underclass himself.

If Jack was a relatively young man, in his 20's or 30's like most of us, and the witnesses at the time believed, it's possible that his mother was still alive when he committed the murders, which would make even less sense.

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Old February 21st, 2010, 09:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Went
I fail to see how he could be angered by the behaviour of prostitutes if this was the case.
From Murder Most Foul:

“Multiple murderer Bobby Joe Long had an extra X (female) chromosome, otherwise known as Klinefelter's syndrome, which meant he had the female hormone estrogen circulating in higher amounts in his system, causing his breasts to grow during puberty. He brutally murdered prostitutes and other women who reminded him of his mother's promiscuity.”

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/s...ong/index.html
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Old February 21st, 2010, 09:07 PM   #19
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AW:

This:

It's a possibility, but then if when Jack was a young chap his mother had gone out soliciting, it probably would have been to help put food in his mouth - so I fail to see how he could be angered by the behaviour of prostitutes if this was the case....

...can also work in the opposite direction. If it made him feel inferior to recall how his own mother ( in this hypothetical situation ) made her ends meet, he might act out on those who were "in the life" and making their ends meet in the same way.
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Old February 21st, 2010, 10:12 PM   #20
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Tim:

....Are you suggesting that Jack grew boobs as well, and that's why he killed?

How:

True, but how would it make him feel inferior? Prostitution was extremely common in the Victorian era, even if only as a casual means of making money, so Jack would have nothing to be ashamed of. A good amount of his associates would have had mothers, sisters, daughters who were prostitutes as well.

More likely, IMO, that he got burned by a woman, possibly a prostitute, who he genuinely loved earlier on in life. Or, more likely still, he simply enjoyed inflicting pain and suffering on others and these women were the easiest targets.

Cheers,
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