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11. Political and/or Ideological “For the JDL leader Meir Kahane and his many fervent followers, any and all measures to further Jewish survival and welfare - including terror, dispossession, and murder - are entirely justified.” - Mark Weber

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Old December 29th, 2008, 02:56 PM   #11
Joe Chetcuti
Former Member
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Default This just arrived today.

Dear Joe Chetcuti,

Thank you very much for your enquiry regarding the Special Commission Act 1888.

It appears that the bill was originally titled the "Members of Parliament (Charges and Allegations) Bill" but was subsequently changed when it passed from the Commons to the Lords. From tracing the bill in Hansard (the official report) the bill was given its final reading (The Third Reading) in the Commons on 8 August 1888.

Hansard has now been digitised back to the 19th century so it is possible to view the text online and also see the list of Members who voted at the final stage in the Commons.

I hope this helps.


Chris Blanchett

__________________________________________________ __________________________
House of Commons Information Office Phone: 020 7219 4272
House of Commons Fax: 020 7219 5839
London Email: hcinfo@parliament.uk
SW1A 2TT Web: http://www.parliament.uk
__________________________________________________ __________________________
Providing information on the work, history and membership of the House of Commons.

The Bill was voted upon in the House of Commons on August 8, 1888. This vote took place shortly after the 3rd reading of the Bill. I will now post the result of this vote and I will display the list of Parliament Members who voted for and against the passage of this Bill in the House of Commons on that day. (The Hansard official report that Chris Blanchett spoke of provided us with this information.)
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Old December 29th, 2008, 03:27 PM   #12
Joe Chetcuti
Former Member
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Default August 8, 1888 VOTE

The House divided:—Ayes 180; Noes 64: Majority 116.


Addison, J. E. W./ Elliot, hon. H. F. H./ Ainslie, W. G./ Elton, C. I./ Aird, J./ Ewart, Sir W./ Ambrose, W./ Eyre, Colonel H./ Amherst, W. A. T./ Fergusson, right hon. Sir J./ Anstruther, H. T./ Ashmead-Bartlett, E./ Field, Admiral E./ Baden-Powell, Sir G. S./ Finch, G. H./ Baird, J. G. A./ Finlay, R. B./ Balfour, rt. hon. A. J./ Fisher, W. H./ Banes, Major G. E./ Fitzwilliam, hon. W. J. W./ Barclay, J. W./ Baring, Viscount/ Fitz-Wygram, Gen. Sir F. W./ Bartley, G. C. T./ Barttelot, Sir W. B./ Fletcher, Sir H./ Bates, Sir E./ Folkestone, right hon. Viscount/ Baumann, A. A./ Beach, right hon./ Sir M. E. Hicks-Forwood, A. B./ Fowler, Sir R. N./ Beadel, W. J./ Fry, L./ Beckett, E. W./ Gent-Davis, R./ Bigwood, J./ Gilliat, J. S./ Blundell, Colonel H. B. H./ Godson, A. F./ Goldsmid, Sir J./ Boord, T. W./ Goldsworthy, Major-General W. T./ Bridgeman, Col. hon. F. C./ Gorst, Sir J. E./ Bristow, T. L./ Goschen, rt. hon. G. J./ Brodrick, hon. W. St. J. F./ Granby, Marquess of/ Gray, C. W./ Bruce, Lord H./ Green, Sir E./ Burdett-Coutts, W. L. Ash.-B./ Grimston, Viscount/ Gurdon, R. T./ Caldwell, J./ Hamilton, right hon. Lord G. F./ Campbell, J. A./ Carmarthen, Marq. of/ Hamilton, Lord E./ Clarke, Sir E. G./ Hamley, Gen. Sir E. B./ Coddington, W./ Hartington, Marq. of/ Coghill, D. H./ Havelock-Allan, Sir H. M./ Collings, J./ Colomb, Sir J. C. R./ Herbert, hon. S./ Cooke, C. W. R./ Hermon-Hodge, R. T./ Corbett, A. C./ Hervey, Lord F./ Corbett, J./ Hill, right hon. Lord A. W./ Corry, Sir J. P./ Cranborne, Viscount/ Hill, A. S./ Crossley, Sir S. B./ Hoare, S./ Curzon, hon. G. N./ Hornby, W. H./ Darling, C. J./ Howard, J./ Davenport, H. T./ Hozier, J. H. C./ Davenport, W. B./ Hughes, Colonel E./ De Lisle, E. J. L. M. P./ Hughes-Hallett, Col. F. C./ Dimsdale, Baron R./ Dugdale, J. S./ Hunter, Sir G./ Dyke, rt. hn. Sir W. H./ Isaacs, L. H./ Edwards-Moss, T. C./ Jackson, W. L./ Egerton, hon. A. J. F./ Jennings, L. J./ Kelly, J. R./ Plunkett, hon. J. W./ Kenyon, hon. G. T./ Powell, F. S./ Kerans, F. H./ Raikes, rt. hon. H. C./ Kimber, H./ Rasch, Major F. C./ Knowles, L./ Reed, H. B./ Lafone, A./ Ritchie, rt. hon. C. T./ Lawrance, J. C./ Robertson, Sir W. T./ Lawrence, W. F./ Robertson, J. P. B./ Lea, T./ Rollit, Sir A. K./ Lennox, Lord W. C. G./ Ross, A. H./ Round, J./ Lethbridge, Sir R./ Russell, Sir G./ Lewis, Sir C. E./ Sandys, Lt.-Col. T. M./ Lewisham, right hon. Viscount/ Saunderson, Colonel E. J./ Llewellyn, E. H./ Sellar, A. C./ Long, W. H./ Sidebotham, J. W./ Lymington, Viscount/ Sinclair, W. P./ Macartney, W. G. E./ Smith, rt. hon. W. H./ Macdonald, right hon. J. H. A./ Spencer, J. E./ Stanhope, rt. hon. E./ Maclean, J. M./ Stanley, E. J./ Maclure, J. W./ Stephens, H. C./ Madden, D. H./ Stokes, G. G./ Maple, J. B./ Swetenham, E./ Marriott, rt. hon. Sir W. T./ Sykes, C./ Talbot, J. G./ Matthews, rt. hn. H./ Tapling, T. K./ Maxwell, Sir H. E./ Taylor, F./ Mildmay, F. B./ Temple, Sir R./ Milvain, T./ Tomlinson, W. E. M./ More, R. J./ Townsend, F./ Morrison, W./ Trotter, Colonel H. J./ Mount, W. G./ Watson, J./ Mowbray, R. G. C./ Webster, Sir R. E./Newark, Viscount/ Whitley, E./ Norris, E. S./ Whitmore, C. A./ Northcote, hon. Sir H. S./ Wodehouse, E. R./ Wood, N./ Norton, R./ Wortley, C. B./ Stuart-O'Neill, hon. R. T./ Wright, H. S./ Parker, C. S./ Parker, hon./ Pearce, Sir W./ Pelly, Sir L./ TELLERS: Douglas, A. Akers- and Walrond, Col. W. H.


Anderson, C. H./ Hingley, B./ Asquith, H. H./ Howell, G./ Balfour, Sir G./ Hunter, W. A./ Barbour, W. B./ Lawson, Sir W./ Barran, J./ M'Arthur, A./ Bradlaugh, C./ M'Arthur, W. A./ Broadhurst, H./ M'Donald, Dr. R./ Buchanan, T. R./ M'Ewan, W./ Burt, T./ Mappin, Sir F. T./ Campbell, Sir G./ Neville, R./ Causton, R. K./ Philipps, J. W./ Channing, F. A./ Pickard, B./ Cobb, H. P./ Pickersgill, E. H./ Cossham, H./ Portman, hon. E. B./ Craig, J./ Potter, T. B./ Crawford, D./ Provand, A. D./ Crawford, W./ Randell, D./Cremer, W. R./ Rendel, S./ Esslemont, P./ Roberts, J./ Evans, F. H./ Roberts, J. B./ Firth, J. F. B./ Robertson, E./ Foster, Sir W. B./ Roe, T./ Gourley, E. T./ Roscoe, Sir H. E./Graham, R. C./ Rowlands, J./ Gully, W. C./ Rowntree, J./ Hayne, C./ Seale-Simon, Sir J./Stanhope, hon. P. J./ Warmington, C. M./ Stewart, H./ Will, J. S./ Stuart, J./ Woodhead, J./ Summers, W./ Wright, C./ Sutherland, A./ Swinburne, Sir J./ Thomas, D. A./ Wallace, R/ TELLERS: Labouchere, H and Dillwyn, L. L.

The sequence of events:

On August 7, 1888 Martha Tabram was murdered in George Yard.

During the first hour of August 8, 1888 Hughes-Hallett arrived in George Yard and was in conversation with the Constable who viewed Tabram's corpse at the murder site on the previous day. From there, Hughes-Hallett continued on with the George Yard and East End investigation.

Later that same day, August 8th, Hughes-Hallett was in the House of Commons. He voted in favor of the anti-Parnellite Bill. The passage of this Bill angered the Irish. The Bill would soon go on to the House of Lords and receive a thumbs up.

On August 11th, Queen Victoria noted in her diary that a plan to assassinate Arthur Balfour has been detected. Balfour was an enemy to many Irishmen.

On August 13th, the "Special Commission Act" was enacted by Parliament.
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Old December 29th, 2008, 04:23 PM   #13
Chris G.
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Originally Posted by Natalie Severn View Post
I have just read the article,"Jack the Radical",and noted the authors insistence that the British have never gone for a disturbance to their way of life in a revolutionary way.I wonder then, what the writer makes of the English Revolution that began in 1642?
Parliament was totally overhauled, bitter battles were fought throughout England between the monarchy and aristocracy and the roundheads [Cromwell ] , and the English king, Charles 1st ,was beheaded in public.It wasnt exactly a peaceful affair all this was it?

Hi Howard, will try to give more time to the subject Joe is tackling over the xmas break--

Hi Norma

You are correct that the English Civil War was the exception in being a radical overthrow of the government of Charles I but since then, with the possible exception of the mostly bloodless (excepting the Battle of Sedgemoor in Somerset and the Battle of the Boyne in Ireland) "Glorious Revolution" of 1688 that installed William of Orange as King William III, after the act of Union of 1707 creating the union of England and Scotland, the British government has stamped down on incendiary radicalism in the English homeland.

The Easter Rebellion of 1916, the Irish Civil War of 28 June 1922 to 24 May 1923, and the eventual independence of Eire aka the Irish Republic as a separate entity to the United Kingdom, which has much to do of course with the ongoing discussion in this thread of events re Parnell and the debate Home Rule in 1888, is the obvious major example of the forcing of the iron hand of what might be termed by some as British authoritarianism and that has mostly been successful in stifling attempts to overturn that control before the peaceful political devolution of the modern era.

All the best

Christopher T. George
Organizer, RipperCon 2018 in Baltimore
For info about RipperCon in Baltimore, MD,
April 7-8, 2018, go to http://rippercon.com/
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Old December 30th, 2008, 06:44 PM   #14
Natalie Severn
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Hi Chris,
I think it true to say that lessons were learnt by the English ruling class !
However ,the English Revolution, by overthrowing the monarchy and executing the king was a catalyst for all subsequent uprisings such as the French Revolution in 1789,which in turn influenced the American War of Independence etc.It was in point of fact the very first of its kind and very important indeed for all sorts of reasons.
After the death of Cromwell in 1658 the restoration of 1660 was, in effect, a recombination of class forces to establish a government more in harmony with the real distribution of strength that had begun to exist during the reign of Elizabeth and through the reign of James.It was less a restoration of the monarchy than a new compromise between the landowners and the Upper classes in the towns.It also ,importantly established the primacy of parliamentary democracy.
In the period after the Glorious Revolution you refer to the focus of interest shifted to the struggle with France and the economic changes that led to the Industrial Revolution.
Best Wishes
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Old December 30th, 2008, 06:46 PM   #15
Natalie Severn
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Thanks for the great research Joe! Need time to digest it now!
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