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Old April 19th, 2017, 01:06 PM   #1
Howard Brown
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Default Point To Ponder : The Approach

Speaking for myself...the major reason I've been sitting on a fence about being more acceptive of Liz Stride's spot in the so-called canon....is the way the man who Israel Schwartz spotted behaved towards her in his presence.

Does the 'approach' of that man play any part in your hesitancy ( if you have any, to begin with ) regarding this issue ?
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Old April 20th, 2017, 09:04 AM   #2
Cris Malone
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Not really.

There's always a chance he wasn't her killer anyway, since this was the time drunken sailors and dockworkers would have been leaving the pubs heading south. Swanson took this into consideration in modifying any certainty that Schwartz saw Stride with her killer.

If he was her killer there are several possibilities that would enable him to be the murderer of Eddowes and maybe some of the others. Most of the murders were committed later in the early morning. It's possible that he spent the night in the pubs drinking up courage and then wander the streets afterwards. He may have still been inebriated when he came across Stride and let his rage get the best of him (there's good indication that whoever did these atrocities had "issues" with women.) This might explain why he just killed her and got the hell out of there.

By the time he came across Eddowes he had composed himself a little better. All speculation of course since we have no idea who did any of this. The character of Jack the Ripper largely exist in our own minds... reality might have been different even if it was a serial killer.
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Old April 20th, 2017, 10:10 AM   #3
Jon Simons
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Brown View Post
Speaking for myself...the major reason I've been sitting on a fence about being more acceptive of Liz Stride's spot in the so-called canon....is the way the man who Israel Schwartz spotted behaved towards her in his presence.

Does the 'approach' of that man play any part in your hesitancy ( if you have any, to begin with ) regarding this issue ?

Hi Howard


Was the man aware of Schwartz` presence when he engaged with Stride ?
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Old April 20th, 2017, 05:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Brown View Post
Speaking for myself...the major reason I've been sitting on a fence about being more acceptive of Liz Stride's spot in the so-called canon....is the way the man who Israel Schwartz spotted behaved towards her in his presence.

Does the 'approach' of that man play any part in your hesitancy ( if you have any, to begin with ) regarding this issue ?
If anything, his approach tends to rule him out in my book.
This was a good 15 minutes before Stride was found dead, so room for another man to appear on the scene.

We don't know what the real killer's approach was, but if it was noisy, belligerent, physical, or abusive in any way I can't see him getting away with it five times in a row.

I'm on the fence too, with reason's both for and against her candidacy. So, I'm kinda stuck for now.
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Old April 20th, 2017, 07:26 PM   #5
Howard Brown
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Was the man aware of Schwartz` presence when he engaged with Stride ?
-Jon Simons-

This is a good point, Jon....again,

If BSM assaulted her and then saw Schwartz, I think its a little less likely that he hung around. We know, at least, he saw Schwartz after the fracas.

Until recently, I thought less of the Pipeman-as-Stride murderer. Starting to appear more feasible.
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Old April 21st, 2017, 04:04 AM   #6
Jon Simons
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Was the man aware of Schwartz` presence when he engaged with Stride ?
-Jon Simons-

This is a good point, Jon....again,

If BSM assaulted her and then saw Schwartz, I think its a little less likely that he hung around. We know, at least, he saw Schwartz after the fracas.

Until recently, I thought less of the Pipeman-as-Stride murderer. Starting to appear more feasible.


Hi How


I still think the most probable murderer was BS Man, despite been seen by Schwartz.


Similarly, Church Passage Man still went on to kill Eddowes, even though he knew he was seen by 3 men, and Annie Chapman`s killer didn`t seem to be bothered about being observed by Mrs Long, when approaching his victim.
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Old April 23rd, 2017, 01:43 PM   #7
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Jon:

Sorry for the slow response.

I go from one to the other on this murder and can't seem to decide on which.

I ought to know this, but are you for Stride's inclusion with the other murders as part of the series ?
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Old April 23rd, 2017, 04:41 PM   #8
Sean Crundall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Brown View Post
Speaking for myself...the major reason I've been sitting on a fence about being more acceptive of Liz Stride's spot in the so-called canon....is the way the man who Israel Schwartz spotted behaved towards her in his presence.

Does the 'approach' of that man play any part in your hesitancy ( if you have any, to begin with ) regarding this issue ?
Hi How,

On the face of it the man spotted by Schwartz, engaging with Stride, appears to be an unlikely Jack the Ripper, unless we assume that he made a serious error in the timing of his attack.

Jack the Ripper appears to have been much more cautious, choosing to attack when he believed himself to be free from observation. However, such killers when intoxicated with the urge to kill have often made serious errors of judgement, and have exposed themselves to capture. Sutcliffe's murder of Helen Rytka is a case in point. There are many others.

The murders' of Stride and Eddowes are both anomalous due to their geography. These anomalies could well tie the two murders' together.

Best wishes,

Sean.
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Old April 24th, 2017, 05:24 AM   #9
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I ought to know this, but are you for Stride's inclusion with the other murders as part of the series ?

Hi How


I could never go against the opinion of the contemporary investigators, and exclude Stride from the series.
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Old April 24th, 2017, 05:38 AM   #10
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Did you know that Fanny Mortimer's husband was a railway carman who may well have been ill for the previous year.

Perhaps he was an old colleague of Charles Lechmere, and Charlie took him a few grapes to cheer him up.
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