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The Torsos Bodies and body parts found in the Thames River as well as in other locations prior to, during, and after the more celebrated Whitechapel Murders

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Old October 16th, 2017, 08:15 PM   #41
Steve Blomer
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An interesting observation Jerry.
The contractors John Grover and sons were based in Islington, very close to the Reagent's canal.




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Old October 16th, 2017, 09:53 PM   #42
Jerry Dunlop
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Default J Grover and Son, Wilton Works

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Originally Posted by Steve Blomer View Post
An interesting observation Jerry.
The contractors John Grover and sons were based in Islington, very close to the Reagent's canal.




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Thank you for this, Steve. I never bothered to find the location of their yard. I am not positive this map shows the exact location, but it must be close by the name, Wilton Square. The circle on the map represents Wilton Square and the arrow points to the direction up the Regents canal to the St Pancras Lock (some of the Rainham parts found here), which was not too far from here. Looking at the map I see a few Timber Yards near the City Road Basin, also. Could be one of his locations?

I also found a legal case involving John Grover in the early 1900's where he had some timber stolen from him. He kept a surplus of timber in the Surrey Commercial Docks near Limehouse. Not sure if he would have had that storage in the timeframe we are discussing?

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Old October 16th, 2017, 09:57 PM   #43
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I also wanted to mention that the construction of New Scotland Yard apparently began sometime in 1887. I can't find exact dates, but I find that an interesting coincidence that corresponds to the date of the first discovery (Rainham) of the torso series.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 05:27 AM   #44
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Jerry

We must not forget that at this stage canals were still heavily used for the transportation of heavy goods. The regents canal was connected to both the Thames and the Grand Union canal and thus onto Birmingham.

It would be interesting to see if any material for Scotland's yard came via canal or even river. However i seriously doubt such information exists.

The possability of a link to the contractors seems a very real possability for many of the Torso murders.



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Old October 17th, 2017, 10:57 AM   #45
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Hi Jerry and all who have contributed research.

Fascinating stuff. Definately a thread where the phrase ‘watch this space’ applies.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 02:22 PM   #46
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Quote:
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Hi Jerry and all who have contributed research.

Fascinating stuff. Definately a thread where the phrase ‘watch this space’ applies.
Thanks Mr. Banks!
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Old October 17th, 2017, 02:27 PM   #47
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In the book, Richard Norman Shaw By Andrew Saint, I found the following regarding the dates for construction of Scotland Yard.


d: des 1886 etc; foundations exec 1887-8; superstructure 1888-90

ctr: John Grover & Son, c/w George Eraut



So it looks like it was designed in 1886 and foundation work began in 1887-8 and the rest completed 1888-90.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 02:58 PM   #48
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In Timber and Plywood, Vol. 10 February 8, 1890 I had found that John Grover & Son along with J.T Chappel were the contractors for the rebuilding of the Leman Street Police Station on the former site of the Garrick Theatre. A search on the internet now comes up empty for that publication. The only thing I can find is that the contractor originally for the work was Messrs. Garlick and Horton but for some reason I seem to remember they couldn't complete the work on time. I could be imagining that, though. An exact date is not given when the construction began other than it was underway before April 1890 but if, for example, it began as early as September 1889 then it becomes more interesting given the location being very near the Pinchin arches.

Note: I may have seen Grover and Chappel tendering bids on the project in this publication and not actually winning the bid, but I can't remember.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 03:36 PM   #49
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I hesitate to even post this but the more pieces that add up....

On the night of Alice McKenzie's murder she had a conversation with Margaret O'Brien in the lodging house and "she told them that she had had a pint of stout-and-mild with a man whom she knew at Tottenham that afternoon in the public-house adjoining the Cambridge Music Hall, and that she was going back to the same place, as she had promised to meet him again."

Wildbore was living in Tottenham in the early 80's. He was also born in Peterborough, a place Alice was known to visit.
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Old October 17th, 2017, 05:27 PM   #50
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Quote:
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I hesitate to even post this but the more pieces that add up....

On the night of Alice McKenzie's murder she had a conversation with Margaret O'Brien in the lodging house and "she told them that she had had a pint of stout-and-mild with a man whom she knew at Tottenham that afternoon in the public-house adjoining the Cambridge Music Hall, and that she was going back to the same place, as she had promised to meet him again."

Wildbore was living in Tottenham in the early 80's. He was also born in Peterborough, a place Alice was known to visit.
Hi Jerry
so now with Alice in the mix-do you also lean to the ripper and torso man being the same?
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