Jack The Ripper Forums  - Ripperology For The 21st Century  

Go Back   Jack The Ripper Forums - Ripperology For The 21st Century > The Torsos

The Torsos Bodies and body parts found in the Thames River as well as in other locations prior to, during, and after the more celebrated Whitechapel Murders

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old November 10th, 2017, 09:34 PM   #1
Jerry Dunlop
Information Extractor
 
Jerry Dunlop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 1,314
Default The Whitehall Vault

I found this basement plan of New Scotland Yard. At the top is printed "Site Inspected & Plans Revised by E.G.B" dates: Jan 1943, Feb. 1957 and Aug. 1958. I'm sure the vaults (also referred as crypts) changed a bit from 1888, but one can get the general idea of why they called it a labyrinth down there.

Also, in November 15th, 1890 issue of The Builder I quote the following which is rather interesting:

Internally, the building is very simple in plan, consisting of, in the sub-basement, a large brick-vaulted crypt extending under the whole area of the building (courtyard included). Above that portion of the crypt which is covered by the buildings is the sub-ground floor, which, together with the crypt, will be used for storage and other purposes. The ground-floor is a few steps above the external roadway, and will be entirely occupied as offices.

Then in the publication, The National Opera House, Thames Embankment, London,The Theatre That Never Was , it states, 'The main building is a parallelogram of about 128ft. towards the Embankment by 168ft. deep, inclosing a courtyard 55ft. by 60ft.'

Now I can see why if someone did not go to the 15x20 foot vault at one end of the crypt, he may not smell the torso. I can also see how difficult, in the dark, it would be to find your way back to that particular vault. Here are a few excerpts from The Daily Telegraph October 3, 1888:

At present only the foundations and a portion of the first storey have been built, and the place is surrounded by a high hoarding.

The ground structure consists of a vast labyrinth of brick passages, archways, and vaulted chambers.

Although there are a large number of men employed on the works, very few of them, it is said, would have readily found their way through the intricate vaults to the spot where the mutilated trunk was concealed.To a stranger venturing alone among these dark corridors there would seem to be a danger of failing to find his way out again.

(The red arrow is the approximate location of the torso)



(credit for basement plans to: http://www.londonmylondon.co.uk/?p=2852)
Jerry Dunlop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2017, 10:02 PM   #2
Jerry Dunlop
Information Extractor
 
Jerry Dunlop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 1,314
Default

I was a little dis-oriented on my arrow. I believe the tunnel to the district line subway (found on the bottom right of this basement plan) heads to the south. That would make the right side of the plan the embankment which would mean the body was somewhere near the paint room on the plan or just left of the district line subway. The bottom of the plan would be Derby Gate. Where I have the red arrow would be an approximate location for one of the gates on Cannon Street.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Jerry Dunlop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2017, 10:33 PM   #3
Jerry Dunlop
Information Extractor
 
Jerry Dunlop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 1,314
Default

After looking at this plan again, I noticed some arches all along the bottom and left side of the plan. Could these be the arched vaults spoken about? They have doors that open up into a recess in some of them.
Jerry Dunlop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2017, 11:13 PM   #4
Howard Brown
Proprietor-Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Eagleville, Pa.
Posts: 74,719
Default

Nice work Jerry.....
__________________
To Join JTR Forums, Contact :
Howard@jtrforums.com
Howard Brown is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2017, 01:28 AM   #5
Jerry Dunlop
Information Extractor
 
Jerry Dunlop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 1,314
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Brown View Post
Nice work Jerry.....
Thanks, Howard,

The map here is how I envision the site on October 2nd, 1888. We know by testimony there was a well. The bigger red rectangle is the pump room in the sub-basement and may possibly be where the well was. We also know from The Builder, 1890 that there was another basement floor just above this one and that is was built only where there was building and not where the courtyard was. The Green square in the middle represents the courtyard area. Eventually that green area would have been floored over. It was stated the vault where the torso lay was covered by loose planks making it very dark. I'm wondering, if they were already partially finished with the ground floor, if planks were also down in all the Blue areas of my plan (around the courtyard) leaving on opening in the middle for access to the sub-basement as I have it here. The two Red rectangles together represent planks leading down to the sub-basement and right to the well.

Daily Telegraph Oct 3, 1888:

"When there, instead of throwing the body into the large open well dug to supply water, or secreting it beneath some of the countless heaps of soil and rubbish lying about, he conveyed it, almost fifty yards, through a network of partly underground passages to a remote corner of the building."

On my plan it would have been easy to throw the torso from above (blue flooring) down into the well.


Next at the bottom of the plan the red arrow shows an entrance to a recess with four arches and separate rooms. The door at the arrow is the only way in. The two smaller rectangles at the bottom say "to sewer". The orange line in the vault represents a trench running from the sewer on the west to the one in the vault where I have the torso.

It was stated that the torso was in the middle vault between Cannon Street and the Embankment (not exact wording). On the plan I show the purple arrow at about the middle vault. If you look at the door access to the vaults along that southern wall, I count about four doors leading into recesses.


All highly speculative I know, but it fits the testimony even though I filled in a few blanks. It would be in the courtyard square in the middle that would afford light where I think George Bugden dragged the body to, to take a look at what it was.

Note: The blue flooring should extend down to the south to cover the entire vault recess areas along that wall where I have the torso.

Jerry Dunlop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2017, 05:46 AM   #6
Debra Arif
Sausage brain
 
Debra Arif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,169
Default

Wow, what an excellent find, Jerry! Thanks for posting it.
I can't get any detail when I zoom in to check a couple of things so I have a couple of questions you can probably answer:

The drainage ditches mentioned at the time of the find were dug out along the arches according to something I read and those recesses seem to be what was being described with the trunk find, so I think you are in the right area.
Where it says Derby Gate, what is that passageway or walkway leading towards the building?
Also, the waterman who applied for the nightwatchman's job was working at a pub on Derby Street, was that close to Derby Gate?
Where would the 'Civil Service Commission' building be in relation to where you have the vault marked.
Debra Arif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2017, 06:05 AM   #7
Gary Barnett
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,427
Default

Hope Jerry doesn't mind me answering Debs' question. I've just been looking at the 1897 OS map. The alignment is more or less the same as the plan (north at the top).


Name:  image.jpg
Views: 54
Size:  95.1 KB
Gary Barnett is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2017, 06:48 AM   #8
Gary Barnett
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,427
Default

The building just above the word 'Derby' is the Red Lion:


Name:  image.jpg
Views: 56
Size:  53.5 KB
Gary Barnett is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2017, 06:50 AM   #9
Gary Barnett
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,427
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Barnett View Post
The building just above the word 'Derby' is the Red Lion:


Attachment 18273
I'm not sure whether that building was there in the 1880's, but there was a pub on the site.
Gary Barnett is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2017, 07:49 AM   #10
Debra Arif
Sausage brain
 
Debra Arif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,169
Default

Thanks, Gary. There was a temporary road or something similar built, leading from the Civil Service Commission building to the building site which traffic entering the site used. I wonder if that was the point of access? It's quite close to the vault marked by the looks of it?...But you know me and maps
Debra Arif is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10 Beta 2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright @ Howard & Nina Brown 2015-2022