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The Torsos Bodies and body parts found in the Thames River as well as in other locations prior to, during, and after the more celebrated Whitechapel Murders

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Old October 22nd, 2017, 03:56 PM   #1
Debra Arif
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Default Division of the torso cases 87-89

I hope it might be useful to have these diagrams of where the bodies in the torsos cases 87 to 89 were divided through the spine and which parts were found in each case. Limb and organ finds not included.

Rainham 1887


The upper portion of the trunk from the 5th dorsal vertebra upwards was never recovered and so it could not be determined where the head was removed.
Body divided in to three portions but only portion from 5th dorsal vertebra to the 3rd lumbar vertebra and pelvis from the 3rd lumbar vertebra recovered.
Portion from 5th dorsal vertebra to 3rd lumbar vertebra found at Battersea Park Pier. Pelvis found at Rainham Ferry

Whitehall 1888


Head taken off at 6th cervical vertebra and division at 4th lumbar vertebra. This portion found in vault on the site of New Scotland Yard building. Pelvis below 4th lumbar vertebra not recovered.

Elizabeth Jackson 1889


Head taken off 6th cervical vertebra, division between the 7th and 8th dorsal vertebra and division of pelvis at 3rd lumbar vertebra. All three portions recovered. Part one in Battersea Park and parts two and three in Thames.

Pinchin Street 1889


Head taken off between 5th and 6th cervical vertebra. Whole torso recovered.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 04:09 PM   #2
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Debs:

Thanks very much for the diagrams.
Great idea !
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 05:36 PM   #3
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Very helpful Debs! Thank you. The Pinchin torso is definitely the odd one out again.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 05:53 PM   #4
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Excellent, Debs! Whoever did whatever didn't seem to have an issue with cutting through the spinal column. This is supposed to be quite difficult. It would be interesting to consider other disarticulaton murders, how many times killers have cut through the spine per corpse, etc. My thinking is, if the head is removed, the rest of the body could be divided into manageable parts without an additional, lower cut through the spine.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 06:10 PM   #5
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Excellent, Debs! Whoever did whatever didn't seem to have an issue with cutting through the spinal column. This is supposed to be quite difficult. It would be interesting to consider other disarticulaton murders, how many times killers have cut through the spine per corpse, etc. My thinking is, if the head is removed, the rest of the body could be divided into manageable parts without an additional, lower cut through the spine.
I think this may be where the fine toothed saw came in handy, Anna.
Much like a butcher uses.
Dr Biggs comments that torso cases are typically divided without dividing the torso itself. Legs, arms and head taken off and torso in one piece. These aren't typical then.
The Rainham case and Elizabeth Jackson's toroso are divided strikingly similarly in to three sections.
In Elizabeth's case her swollen pregnant abdomen had different treatment, with sections of the skin from her umbilicus downwards to her external genitals and part of her buttock taken off and parcelled up with the emptied uterus. It's almost like he 'cut off' the protruding bump.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 06:32 PM   #6
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I think this may be where the fine toothed saw came in handy, Anna.
Much like a butcher uses.
Dr Biggs comments that torso cases are typically divided without dividing the torso itself. Legs, arms and head taken off and torso in one piece. These aren't typical then.
The Rainham case and Elizabeth Jackson's toroso are divided strikingly similarly in to three sections.
In Elizabeth's case her swollen pregnant abdomen had different treatment, with sections of the skin from her umbilicus downwards to her external genitals and part of her buttock taken off and parcelled up with the emptied uterus. It's almost like he 'cut off' the protruding bump.
"Part of the buttock taken off." That's terribly reminiscent of Mary Kelly. THAT feature of the MJK murder always got my attention. My favourite word: WHY????

The best solution for that in Mary's case would be, as Wickerman has suggested, Mary was on her stomach when killed. She would have been back up and the left buttock could have been the closest starting place.

"Umbilicus downwards to her external genitals and part of her buttock." A lot like MJK. Amazing!
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 06:42 PM   #7
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"Part of the buttock taken off." That's terribly reminiscent of Mary Kelly. THAT feature of the MJK murder always got my attention. My favourite word: WHY????

The best solution for that in Mary's case would be, as Wickerman has suggested, Mary was on her stomach when killed. She would have been back up and the left buttock could have been the closest starting place.

"Umbilicus downwards to her external genitals and part of her buttock." A lot like MJK. Amazing!
Well that's what I've always said when asked about a ripper torso link...MJK and Elizabeth Jackson had a lot of similar injuries. I don't necessarily go with the turned on the stomach scenario, not in Elizabeth's case anyway. If you cut through the genitals from the front while holding up a leg, you are part way in to cutting the buttocks.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 06:58 PM   #8
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"Part of the buttock taken off." That's terribly reminiscent of Mary Kelly. THAT feature of the MJK murder always got my attention. My favourite word: WHY????
A look at the MJK3 photograph indicates that her killer seemed intent on totally skinning her "undercarriage" - which necessitated removing the flesh on the right thigh and buttock in basically one sheet which continued through to the perineum and external genitalia. It's a quite deliberate, and specific, wound, travelling in a particular direction. If a similar "saddle" of flesh had been removed from Jackson's right thigh, via the buttock and across her perineum to the other thigh I'd see a more definite similarity. As it happens, Jackson's abdominal wounds seem to have been due to her having been pregnant, which did not apply in Kelly's case.
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 07:05 PM   #9
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A look at the MJK3 photograph indicates that her killer seemed intent on totally skinning her "undercarriage" - which necessitated removing the flesh on the right thigh and buttock in basically one sheet which continued through to the perineum and external genitalia. It's a quite deliberate, and specific, wound, travelling in a particular direction. If a similar "saddle" of flesh had been removed from Jackson's right thigh, via the buttock and across her perineum to the other thigh I'd see a more definite similarity. As it happens, Jackson's abdominal wounds seem to have been due to her having been pregnant, which did not apply in Kelly's case.
Yet I wonder why Elizabeth Jackson's killer continued down with his knife and cut out two portions of abdominal flesh that contained the external genitalia and part of the right buttock?
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Old October 22nd, 2017, 07:13 PM   #10
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Internally he had cut out the uterus by cutting through the top portion of the vagina above the external genitals.
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