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Mysteries Within The Mystery Forum for researchers to list what they feel are the most uncanny mysteries within the greater mystery....the identity and motive of the Whitechapel Murderer

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Old April 27th, 2017, 09:46 PM   #71
San Fran
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Hi Ralph,

why ask for facts when you can ask for fair presumptions and have something to work with.

We know for a fact about Jack the Ripper that it's a fact you need to work with something.....
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Old April 28th, 2017, 12:14 AM   #72
Simon Wood
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Hi San Fran,

What do we know about Jack the Ripper?

The answer is 'nothing.'

Everything we think we know about him has been a lie.

Regards,

Simon
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Old April 28th, 2017, 11:09 AM   #73
Ralph Petroff
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Hi San Fran!

Quote:
Originally Posted by San Fran View Post
Hi Ralph,

why ask for facts when you can ask for fair presumptions and have something to work with.

We know for a fact about Jack the Ripper that it's a fact you need to work with something.....
Well, in my opinion so many things about the Ripper are vague. For example, think of the Carrie Brown murder. The similarities are striking, but did the Ripper come to America? If so, maybe James Kelly is an interesting suspect, while others had to be eliminated; if not, Mr Kelly and some others had to be eliminated, while it would be sensible to concentrate on the "British suspects". The same goes for later murders: Did the Ripper stop after Mary Jane Kelly, or didn't he? If you think he didn't, several good suspects had to be eliminated. It is the same when it comes to witnesses: There were so many interesting sightings, but who of them actually saw the Ripper - if anyone did?

I got somewhat lost in the jungle of assumptions, and hence I noticed that a lot of theories are based on what someone believes, that many theories are built around assumptions matching a certain suspect. Now of course I know that this can't be avoided, given that we are discussing a criminal case that happened almost 130 years ago. At that time, possibilites were limited to say the least; today, it is impossible to reconstruct the facts. But at least I wanted to try to reconstruct as many facts as possible in order to offer sort of an orientation in the jungle.^^
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Old April 28th, 2017, 02:01 PM   #74
San Fran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
What do we know about Jack the Ripper?

The answer is 'nothing.'

Everything we think we know about him has been a lie.
Yes, Simon,
I'm totally in agreement with renouncing everything you "know" and starting over.

I'm sure you're going to say we don't "know" it's an extraordinary series of crimes (which to me would require an extraordinary solution) so I won't bother going there.

Something we know or can know possibly has to be something that will or can lead somewhere. Otherwise it's simply we know it was a man or men.

I see Ralph uses the inverted Vs. That's where I was going to go. One of the first if only places I'd think of going. ^^ Makes you want to go mmmmmmmmmmm......

What's worse - seeing something that isn't there or not seeing something that is?
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Old April 28th, 2017, 07:21 PM   #75
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Hi San Fran,

You can't be certain it wasn't a woman or women.

Why does ^^ make you want to go mmmmmmmmmmm......?

Regards,

Simon
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Old April 29th, 2017, 05:09 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
What do we know about Jack the Ripper?

The answer is 'nothing.'

Everything we think we know about him has been a lie.
I think "lie" is a bit strong, although sometimes this is the case. More often, we're looking at a spectrum that ranges from "informed theories" to "wild conjecture". There's huge scope for variation even within those categories: some theories/conjectures are more grounded than others.

As to the man himself, it's fair to say that we actually know nothing; not even if he was a "him", for that matter.
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 10:00 PM   #77
Craig H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Petroff View Post
Dear fellow Ripperologists:

Let me begin this thread by saying how glad I am to be here.

To most people, the most interesting question in "Ripperology" of course is the classic "Whodunnit". But the problem is, to compare suspects to the perpetrator, you have to know as many things as possible about the perpetrator.

This thought led me to the question: What do we actually know about Jack the Ripper? .
Hi Ralph,

Great OP and thread.

The following summarises ideas from previous threads. They are more “evidence-based statements” more than “facts”.

JTR was English, 28 – 35 years old, around 5’7”, pale complexion, small moustache, stocky
The most credible witnesses were Lawende and PC Smith who saw the victim with just before their body was found.
I think Hutchinson did see Kelly (but embellished his story to earn money from police / press) as this aligns with Sarah Lawis’s testimony. If you remove the detailed clothing description; Hutchinson’s man was 34-35 years old, 5’6″, pale complexion, dark hair, slight moustached curled at each end. One explanation is Hutchinson knew Kelly, was waiting for her client to leave so he could share her bed.
Mrs Long also probably saw JTR but had poor visibility (she saw him from the back).
I also think Marshall saw JTR as the description was similar, however this was an hour before she died. This could be possible as I think he knew the victims (more below).
Finally, I think the man seen in Church Lane after the Stride murder was JTR.

JTR had surgical or dissection skills
The view at the inquests were JTR had medical / surgical skill (Llewellyn, Phlilips, Brown). It was mainly later that Bond disagreed (pressure to protect his profession ?).
The removal of Eddowe’s kidney is complicated and impossible to be a “slash and grab”. It required cutting through the peritoneal lining and then removing the kidney.
He used a midline incision that skirts around the umbilicus (belly button) to the right. This is standard practice for surgeons who avoid the umbilicus as it is tough to sew up after the operation or autopsy.
A novice would have been more likely to cut intestines and spill faecal matter.
Removing organs in the dark under pressure requires someone who has done this before.

JTR used a blood choke to strangle his victims
Strangling his victims prevented aerial blood sprays (as the heart had stopped pumping) onto his clothes. This explains the small amount of blood at the scene.
A traditional strangling approach cutting air to the lungs takes a few minutes and the victim struggles, kicks, scratches the attacker. The evidence is they died quickly and with limited struggle. Annie Chapman was attacked on dirt (not cobble stones) and there were no marks on the ground from her feet pushing into the ground.
It is more likely he used a blood choke where he compressed the arteries in the neck, stopping blood getting to the brain, and victims lost consciousness in 30 – 60 seconds. This explains the sudden deaths.
Again, this suggests JTR had some medical knowledge to know the technique.

JTR attacked in moonless nights (hence October gap)
JTR did not attack when there was a full moon. Tabram August 7 (no moon), Nichols August 31 (half moon), Chapman September 8 (no mon), Stride / Eddowes September 30 (quarter moon), Kelly November 9 (half moon). If Alice Mackenzie was a victim – July 17, 1889 was half moon.

JTR lived or worked around Flower & Dean Street
Others have noted that if you draw (1) a line from Mitre Square to Goulston Street apron finding and (2) a line from Stride’s death to Church Lane sighting of a suspicious man; then the lines converge on Flower & Dean Street. This assumes JTR was heading home after these attacks.
This is supported by geographic profiling (Dr Rossmo and others) who find a centre point for murder sites. They argue JTR living in the square mile around Flower & Dean Street.

JTR knew the victims
Others have stated the similarities among the victims.
In the year before the murders each of the victims had lived within 100 yards of the street." Addresses at the time of their death were 56 Flower & Dean St (Mary Ann Nichols), 55 Flower & Dean St (Catherine Eddowes), 32 Flower & Dean St (Elizabeth Stride).
It’s likely JTR drank with them at the nearby pub. He probably knew them and this reassured them that he was not a threat. This may explain the Marshall sighting – maybe JTR was with Stride for an hour before her death.
Finally, I also think he have them gifts which looked out of place for destitute women to have – Eddowes red leather cigarette case, Chapman’s three brass rings, Stride’s large piece of green velvet and flower corsage, Nichols’ new “jolly bonnet”.


I don’t think JTR is one of the known suspects mentioned on these sites, but is more likely someone who was a surgeon / medical student / worked in a morgue or hospital, lived on his own / not married, had a hatred of prostitutes (as he may have syphilis), was not working class, was or had been of good standing, and lived or worked around Flower & Dean Street.



Craig
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 10:20 PM   #78
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Craig:

Thanks for taking the time in putting your list together. Very nice of you.

One quick question....when you state the Ripper was 'English'... do you mean he hailed from from the British Isles and/or was not Continental/Jewish, correct ?
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 11:53 PM   #79
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Craig: You think like I do. I make lots of lists, mostly in my head. (I am a lifelong insomniac and this helps me sleep.)

I can never make up my mind about Jack and medical knowledge. Or how much knowledge. Maybe he had just cleaned up around a dissecting room.

Anyway there is one thing on this subject that might also pertain. In his removal of female organs he needed to cut or detach some ligaments that hold the organs up and in place. Perhaps he could have pulled hard and freed the organs. However he did it, medical men would have noted. I think if he made accurate cuts it would indicate some prior knowledge.

(However the two victims who had had their uteri removed and taken away, had both had a number of children. These ligaments can become loose or torn from repeated child births so maybe it was a simple matter for Jack.)
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Old June 4th, 2017, 12:39 AM   #80
Craig H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Brown View Post
Craig:

Thanks for taking the time in putting your list together. Very nice of you.

One quick question....when you state the Ripper was 'English'... do you mean he hailed from from the British Isles and/or was not Continental/Jewish, correct ?
Hi How,
Yes - both. I think he was an Englishman, born and raised, and not from the continent or Jewish.
PC Smith and Lawende say he had a pale complexion.
I also think Marshall saw JTR with His victim an hour before killing and Marshall said "you'd say anything but your prayers" in an educated accent.
What's your thoughts ?
Craig
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