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Suspects and Theories To date, over one hundred have been proposed...many are considered...but only one [ or was it two? ] was Jack The Ripper.

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Old May 19th, 2017, 06:15 AM   #281
Debra Arif
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I think there's a good chance that Royal Artillery soldier, baker, age 20 and born 1856 in St George Middlesex, baker with a scar on his forehead, 5ft 5 and a smidge, grey eyes, brown hair and who deserted at Woolwich in 1875, is the same man.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 06:19 AM   #282
Gary Barnett
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There are two sugar refineries in Christian Street on the 1873 OS map. One runs between Christian Street and Grove Street (near the junction with Cable Street) and the other runs between Christian Street and Stutfield Street, its southern side being in Pinchin Street. I'm not sure if they both belonged to Martineau.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 06:31 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by Debra Arif View Post
I think there's a good chance that Royal Artillery soldier, baker, age 20 and born 1856 in St George Middlesex, baker with a scar on his forehead, 5ft 5 and a smidge, grey eyes, brown hair and who deserted at Woolwich in 1871, is the same man.


We have a small discrepancy, then, in terms of POB. The blind hawker on the 1891 census claimed to have been born in East Smithfield, which is just outside STGITE. The parish boundary runs through it just before it reaches Virginia Street and becomes the Highway/St George Street. I think it also ran through the Virginia Street Chapel (I'll check that).

But he can't be another man, can he? How many blind hawker/beggars named TF, born ca 1855 can there have been in the East End at the time?

Wasn't there another TF who was court martialled in Portsmouth (from memory) in 1873?
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Old May 19th, 2017, 06:48 AM   #284
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We have a small discrepancy, then, in terms of POB. The blind hawker on the 1891 census claimed to have been born in East Smithfield, which is just outside STGITE. The parish boundary runs through it just before it reaches Virginia Street and becomes the Highway/St George Street. I think it also ran through the Virginia Street Chapel (I'll check that).

But he can't be another man, can he? How many blind hawker/beggars named TF, born ca 1855 can there have been in the East End at the time?

Wasn't there another TF who was court martialled in Portsmouth (from memory) in 1873?
Perhaps he was geographically challenged, or it wasn't that important to pinpoint the exact place. Some people gave completely different counties, even countries from one census to the next.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 06:57 AM   #285
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Perhaps he was geographically challenged, or it wasn't that important to pinpoint the exact place. Some people gave completely different counties, even countries from one census to the next.
Could be. But in both cases he gave an actual street name. Could it have been that he lied about his POB to smooth his entry into a STGITE facility?

The man in Hellingly was a good couple of inches taller (5ft 8in) than the baker and had no scar on his forehead that was noted. They did mention scars on his legs, though.

I've just noticed something rather ironic on Foggy's Hellingly record. Next to 'Present Order signed by' is the name P. M. Martineau.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 07:49 AM   #286
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Could be. But in both cases he gave an actual street name. Could it have been that he lied about his POB to smooth his entry into a STGITE facility?

The man in Hellingly was a good couple of inches taller (5ft 8in) than the baker and had no scar on his forehead that was noted. They did mention scars on his legs, though.

I've just noticed something rather ironic on Foggy's Hellingly record. Next to 'Present Order signed by' is the name P. M. Martineau.

Yes. It's reasonable that his giving Cable Street nr. Grove Street as the place of his birth when he was being grilled about settlement entitlement in the SGE Union was a tactical move to avoid being 'removed'.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 08:23 AM   #287
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Perhaps he was geographically challenged, or it wasn't that important to pinpoint the exact place. Some people gave completely different counties, even countries from one census to the next.
And of course, if the person was illiterate, it's a case of whether the person who actually completed the form knew the correct location.

One of my ancestors was born in Ettingshall, near Wolverhampton but on the 1861 census his POB was shown as Hitchin, Herts. Both his parents were illiterate and he was a child at the time, so I can only assume the enumerator, or whoever, misheard what they were told.

Who would have filled out a census form for a Common Lodging House back then? Couldn't have been easy, but E. Smithfield is so close to where I think Foggy grew up, that it must have come from him, or someone who knew him reasonably well.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 08:44 AM   #288
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And of course, if the person was illiterate, it's a case of whether the person who actually completed the form knew the correct location.

One of my ancestors was born in Ettingshall, near Wolverhampton but on the 1861 census his POB was shown as Hitchin, Herts. Both his parents were illiterate and he was a child at the time, so I can only assume the enumerator, or whoever, misheard what they were told.

Who would have filled out a census form for a Common Lodging House back then? Couldn't have been easy, but E. Smithfield is so close to where I think Foggy grew up, that it must have come from him, or someone who knew him reasonably well.
See my last post.
For me, there seems to be a delay in posting sometimes, beyond the usual crossing of posts, that causes a random post to suddenly appear half way through a new set of posts when it wasn't there any time before.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 08:50 AM   #289
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See my last post.
For me, there seems to be a delay in posting sometimes, beyond the usual crossing of posts, that causes a random post to suddenly appear half way through a new set of posts when it wasn't there any time before.
I did see it. I was just toying with the possibility that E. Smithfield could have wrong.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:00 AM   #290
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Who would have filled out a census form for a Common Lodging House back then? Couldn't have been easy, but E. Smithfield is so close to where I think Foggy grew up, that it must have come from him, or someone who knew him reasonably well.
Probably the person named on the census cover sheet or someone nominated by them was probably expected to collect the data for the census forms?Registered common lodging houses were categorised under institutions in later years. The census for 35 Dorset St in 1891 had William Crossingham's name on the page before the entries.
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