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Old June 9th, 2014, 07:00 AM   #41
String
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Not the same as this sign but might be interesting:

http://throughtheeyesofalondoner.blo...1866-1917.html
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Old June 9th, 2014, 08:48 AM   #42
Rob Clack
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Originally Posted by Roy Corduroy View Post
Hi Rob, are you saying that in the 1907 photo the white rectangular shaped image on the right side of the (1st) doorway of 90-107 Goulston and also on the (2nd) 108-119 apparently the same white shape on the right side but hard to see as clearly as the first one ... are you saying those are not signs?
I can't say whether they are or not as they can't be made out at all.

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I guess what I'm suggesting is: if that is a white rectangular sign in 1907, is it proven it was not at some point moved from the right middle to the top upper left. And therefore Mark's sign is the same one seen in a 1907 photo. I am posing this as a hypothetical question. If those are not signs in 1907 it's a moot point and I owe you a cold one.

1907 & 1973
The whole ground floor frontage was changed at some point after 1907. I think in the 1920s. Shops were added and the recess was covered over. As far as I am aware the sign was still not placed where it was in the 1970s photos till later on. Might have been in the 1950s.

But the whole point should be that if this item is being sold as a ripper related item than it's provenance needs to be very solid.
And I don't mean this to sound like an attack on Mark's integrity but if someone is going to part with good money for this, they might want a bit more than my dad got it from the wall in the 1970s from a builder working on Wentworth Model Dwellings.

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Old June 9th, 2014, 01:20 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Rob Clack View Post
I can't say whether they are or not as they can't be made out at all.
The ones in the 1907 pic seem "chunkier", somehow. Their horizontal dimensions look shorter, which could - I guess - be due to foreshortening, but they definitely appear to be somewhat "taller" than the 1970s sign.
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Old June 9th, 2014, 02:43 PM   #44
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Although enamel signs had been produced since the early nineteenth century mass production did not begin until 1889 when Salt's opened a factory in Selley Oak, Birmingham. So although enamel signs were available in 1888 they were all made individually by hand so it is highly unlikely that the sign dates from 1888.
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Old June 9th, 2014, 02:56 PM   #45
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The ones in the 1907 pic seem "chunkier", somehow. Their horizontal dimensions look shorter, which could - I guess - be due to foreshortening, but they definitely appear to be somewhat "taller" than the 1970s sign.
Assuming it's a flat numbering sign.

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Old June 9th, 2014, 03:12 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip Walton View Post
Although enamel signs had been produced since the early nineteenth century mass production did not begin until 1889 when Salt's opened a factory in Selley Oak, Birmingham. So although enamel signs were available in 1888 they were all made individually by hand so it is highly unlikely that the sign dates from 1888.
Good information, Phillip. Thanks. I have also been considering the type style on the sign and thinking that the superscript in "Nos." is at least early decades of the twentieth century. I compared the style to a couple of antique signs I saw on an auction site, one an enamel sign advertising Wills's Gold Flake cigarettes where the last "s" in "Wills's" is superscript and the other what appears to be a wooden sign for a firm of realtors named Atherton & Co. Ltd. in Woking where part of the "Co. Ltd." is superscripted. Nothing definitive here of course but I merely show them for a comparison to the sign in Goulston Street as a type of typography of the age and not something usual to a modern sign.



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Old June 9th, 2014, 03:21 PM   #47
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Assuming it's a flat numbering sign.
True, true... it might have been a sign saying "No Graffiti"
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Old June 9th, 2014, 03:56 PM   #48
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True, true... it might have been a sign saying "No Graffiti"
I think you are right there
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Old July 29th, 2014, 03:49 PM   #49
Colin Macdonald
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Whether or not the item is contemporary to 1888 this is probably the oldest sign which survives. The fact that it appears in so many photographs gives it significant value I would have thought, especially if Mark's father were to certificate it in some way. I'd certainly be pleased to own it and I'm very glad that it has survived.
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