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Old September 17th, 2015, 04:51 PM   #41
Emanuele Cianto
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I am supposing the man was taller, even Tumblety's height. Think about it. If a man inclined his head forward to better hear, observe or kiss a shorter woman, wouldn't he look a couple inches shorter? If he was in that position could his height be accurately described? I think not.

I am tall. If I want to hear something a five foot tall female friend says in a soft voice I slightly bend from the waste and slightly bend my knees. If such was observed in the dark would an observer assume I was merely 3 inches taller than the 5 foot woman instead of my full height of about 5' 9"?

Also, if the woman with the man observed by Lewende had heels on her boots it would mean something else in estimating height. Or what if she had raised onto her toes to better hear her companion or kiss him? I don't think the estimates of height in this case mean very much at all.
Hi Anna.

That's what I mean: you said height estimation doesn't mean very much at all. Well, this was the only 'true' eyewitness of Jack the Ripper. I think my theory is good the man Lawende saw had a 'big moustache' and if he could have been 5 feet 10/11 inches tall Francis Tumblety could have been the man. Remember I am not saying this was the case.

P.S: Lawende and his friend said the didn't take too much notice of the couple... and it was very dark and (probably) reining and fogging... so... a couple of inches is not a too improbable mistake, I think.
I hope I wrote it correctly...

Regards,
Em
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Old September 18th, 2015, 12:54 PM   #42
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I agree, Emanuele. Unless people have truly extreme height differences, a few inches here and there can be shaved by posture. Especially considering the article you have posted today (John Lardy's experience) about the man who was followed and changed clothes and donned a false moustache, there is no reason to rule out Tumblety with the woman.

People who are very tall also frequently have ways of making themselves look shorter, to better fit in. Think about teenagers who suddenly grow taller than all their friends. Some, to fit in, stoop or round their shoulders or whatever, to appear more "normal" in height. Undoubtedly a showman like Tumblety would have known a great many tricks to accomplish his goals at any given time.
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Old September 18th, 2015, 02:52 PM   #43
Emanuele Cianto
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I agree, Emanuele. Unless people have truly extreme height differences, a few inches here and there can be shaved by posture. Especially considering the article you have posted today (John Lardy's experience) about the man who was followed and changed clothes and donned a false moustache, there is no reason to rule out Tumblety with the woman.

People who are very tall also frequently have ways of making themselves look shorter, to better fit in. Think about teenagers who suddenly grow taller than all their friends. Some, to fit in, stoop or round their shoulders or whatever, to appear more "normal" in height. Undoubtedly a showman like Tumblety would have known a great many tricks to accomplish his goals at any given time.
Hi Anna,

Exactly.
Remember Lawende and Co.were in almost total dark and rain and probably fog. Harry Harrys, one of them, said he could fournish any detail about the couple, and that even HIS TWO FRIENDS COULDN'T. Levy said he didn't take any notice of the couple, he could fournish only an estimation of their heights (and now it has been shown Eddowes was not 5 feet tall but about 5 feet 4. It would be a shorter difference between someone who's 5 feet 10/11 and someone who's 5 feet 4 than if she was only 5 feet).

Finally, and probably not casually, in 1903 Chief Inspector Frederick George Abberline dismissed all the eyewitness statements, 'cause no-one had ever seen the Ripper.
No, there is absolutely nothing to roule Tumblety out.

P.S: I think you would like Mr Micheal Hawley's articles, Anna.

Thank you.

Regards,
Em
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Old September 18th, 2015, 04:57 PM   #44
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I have an idea Joseph Levy took a glance at the couple and recognised the man and thought no more about height. Alternately maybe he recognised the couple as a man and woman who worked together to rob people, judging by his concern about going home alone. I think Frances Coles may have been part of a couple/group/gang that did such things and this led to her end.

I don't think any of the three witnesses got a good estimate of height and their observations alone do not rule out Tumblety.
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Old September 24th, 2015, 01:40 PM   #45
Emanuele Cianto
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Hi all,

I have read Eddowes' post-mortem; Bagster-Phillips stated she was 5 feet 3 inches tall (1.60 cm).

We all know Ripper suspect Jacob Levy was also 5 feet 3.

Both Lawende and Levy described a man taller than Eddowes (although they didn't know exactly how much).

Could this be significant to roule our mad-butcher out of the suspect list?

Let me know what do you think.
Thank you.

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Em
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