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Old September 16th, 2015, 01:53 PM   #11
Emanuele Cianto
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Hi all,

Thank you all for your answer, Lynn Stephen and Chris.
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Old September 16th, 2015, 03:42 PM   #12
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I would take the "stubbly moustache" also possibly to mean the man was beginning to grow a moustache and it was in the beginning stage. I have wondered many times about how much Jack may have controlled his facial whiskers to look different at different times. I also believe it would have been fairly easy back then to dye a moustache.

The book 'The Lodger' is available to read free online with Project Gutenberg. I read it for the first time a couple months ago, looking for any connexion with the Elizabeth Weston-Davies saga. Imagine how encouraging it was to note the protagonists' names were Ellen and Robert! (Compared to Ellen and Robert McLeod in the EWD story.)

Beyond that I enjoyed a well written book with what my mother would have called a "shaggy dog ending". I have read that Sickert's ramblings were based on a lodger story, but beyond a nice story I didn't think I learned anything about JtR & his crimes, at least based on what I perceive about his crimes.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 12:14 PM   #13
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Echo October 15th 1888

"They then discovered that on the day after that crime (Stride) a German left a bloodstained shirt with a laundress at 22 Batty street. a few yards from the seat of the tragedy and remarking "I shall call in two or three days" departed in a hurried manner. His conduct was deemed highly suspicious. Dectectives Thick and White, who probably know more of the east end criminal than any other officers, arrested the man suspected on Saturday night. He was conveyed to Leman street Station and inquiries were immediately set afoot. These resulted in the mans release this morning. Our representative an inquiry respecting the above incident this afternoon and ascertained that the shirt had a quantity of blood on the front and on both sleeves"

Echo Follow-up " Police authorities have received information tending to show that the criminal is a foreigner, who was known as having lived within the radius of a few hundred yards from the scene of the Berner Street tragedy. The very place where he lodges is asserted to be within official cognisance. If the man be the real culprit, he lived some time ago with a woman, by whom, he has been accused. Her statements are, it is stated, now being inquired into. In the mean time the suspect assign is 'shadowed' Incriminating evidence of a certain character has already been obtained, and, should implicite credence be placed in the woman already referred to, whose name we will not transpire under any circumstance until after his guilt is prima facie established"

"The accused is himself aware, it is believed, of the suspicions entertained against him"

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Old September 17th, 2015, 12:36 PM   #14
Anna Morris
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Concerning the German with the bloody shirt, keep in mind "German" could mean Polish, Hungarian, Russian, Jewish, etc., etc., etc.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 01:16 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Anna Morris View Post
Concerning the German with the bloody shirt, keep in mind "German" could mean Polish, Hungarian, Russian, Jewish, etc., etc., etc.
Yes, but most commonly Yiddish, which is a German dialect

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Old September 17th, 2015, 02:18 PM   #16
Emanuele Cianto
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Quote:
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Yes, but most commonly Yiddish, which is a German dialect

Yours Jeff
Hi Jeff,

Thank you for answering. I was aware of the German-Lodger-theory, but I know the landlady, Mrs Kuer, was also a German and she described her lodger as a "foreign". She spoke no but a poor English so to her it would seem "foreign" an American dialect, an Irish dialect or so... but not a German dialect.
However, I could be wrong.

Regards,
Em
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Old September 17th, 2015, 02:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuele Cianto View Post
Hi Jeff,

Thank you for answering. I was aware of the German-Lodger-theory, but I know the landlady, Mrs Kuer, was also a German and she described her lodger as a "foreign". She spoke no but a poor English so to her it would seem "foreign" an American dialect, an Irish dialect or so... but not a German dialect.
However, I could be wrong.

Regards,
Em
Hi Emanuele

I don't think it's a contradiction to think that, in England, a German landlady might report that her lodger, possibly also a German, was "foreign." In fact from the perspective of the newspapers, the man was "foreign" so she would characterize him that way as well, despite herself being German.

Best regards

Chris
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Old September 17th, 2015, 02:40 PM   #18
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Emanuele: Yiddish has a German base but is very different also. Also, in Europe then, and into the last century at least, there were a lot of prejudices between nationalities. Germans looked down on Slavs. Slavs looked down on each other as well as Germans.

A dear friend of mine who emigrated from Ukraine, via Hitler's camps, said that though Slavic languages are similar, among Slavs they will always claim not to understand others. It is a matter of national pride or something.

In JtR lore if I remember correctly, the witness Schwarz (a somewhat German name) was called a German but he was a Hungarian as well as Jewish. Perhaps or probably he spoke Yiddish also. This is a source of confusion when discussing this witness.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 04:47 PM   #19
Emanuele Cianto
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Thank you all guys, Anna and Chris.
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Old September 17th, 2015, 05:45 PM   #20
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I thought Batty street had always been linked to an "American"??

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http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-kuer.html
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Daily News of Tuesday 9th October titled ‘Remarkable Story’. This tells of an American arrested at 1am the previous morning (Monday 8th) whose conduct and demeanour was said to be suspicious. John Lardy and a friend had followed the man after seeing him approach two women thought to be prostitutes. They followed him from London Hospital to Aldgate at the corner of Duke Street. By then the man seemed to be aware that he was being followed and doubled back to go down Leman Street to Royal Mint Street and across King Street. The latter was a narrow road so the men ran round to the other side to catch sight of him there. When they arrived they heard a door shut and suspected he had gone into a house. He emerged 25 minutes later in different clothes. Lardy described him as being about 5-11 or 6-0 feet tall and said he had what appeared to be a false moustache. The report is linked to one in the Manchester Evening News 18th October that said a man aged 35 had been arrested. He had been somewhat confused lately and was detained pending further inquiries. The description of this American certainly fits that of Tumblety and the authors link the various reports to this investigation into Tumblety’s movements.

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