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Old September 21st, 2015, 04:19 PM   #11
Emanuele Cianto
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Lynn: You are right. I'll have to re-think things. The cachous do make a break in action from the altercation with BS-Man, IF he was tussling with Liz, which maybe he wasn't. Complicated situation.
Hi all,

I agree with Anna. Schwartz said the man was quarreling and assaulting Lizbut then she was found with cachous in her handI think it should be obvious Schwartz's scenario is not the true actually.

Lynn, what do you think of the butcher-kidney theory?

Regards,
Em
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Old September 21st, 2015, 05:36 PM   #12
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Hello Emanuele. Thanks.

Umm, for which victim? Kate?

No, I don't think a butcher would have perpetrated such a hack and mangle job.

Cheers.
LC
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Old September 22nd, 2015, 08:58 AM   #13
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Hello Emanuele. Thanks.

Umm, for which victim? Kate?

No, I don't think a butcher would have perpetrated such a hack and mangle job.

Cheers.
LC
Hi Lynn,

Thank you.

Have you even got some personal theory concerning why the killer wasn't a butcher?
You know I am a student and even if I have my own idea I'd love to know experts' opinions.

Thank you again.

Regards,
Em
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Old September 22nd, 2015, 10:58 AM   #14
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Lynn: The cachous are always problematic. Where did she get them, why was she holding them, etc.? While we are not 100% sure the woman BS-Man accosted was Liz, it may have been. Maybe it was her and she was emotionally upset~likely~and she stepped back into Dutfield's yard and proceeded to consume a cachou for her nerves. If the cachous were mint, mint has long been a folk remedy for a lot of things including emotional upset. (I recently chewed a piece of peppermint gum when I wasn't feeling well. I don't like gum but I chewed it for the peppermint which is comforting, and it got me thinking about cachous.)

Emanuele: I live in the western US and have hunted big game like deer and elk and am competent to cut up meat and field dress a carcass. We don't usually eat kidneys in the US so I won't comment on extraction of a kidney. (Patricia Cornwell made points about JtR "plucking" some organs. That is a British term. I assume it is somewhat like "blunt dissection" in medicine, tearing rather than cutting.)

I have felt what happened to MJK could have showed signs of someone who knew how to butcher. Jack cut flesh to the bone and completely stripped the flesh from the bone. Flesh is well attached to bone. Certain cuts that removed flesh from the rib area are similar to butchering. I think the doctors commented on this as well.

It looks like Jack scored flesh in certain areas~note the dark line below the right knee~preparatory to removing other parts, I think. I would thing this would be more a butcher's technique than medical.

Again with MJK, there was a lot of cutting. I think he cut till his knife got so dull he couldn't continue. The damage to Mary's left side is much cruder than that to the right. Anyway there was a lot of cutting and I am of the opinion this takes am especially good quality knife, perhaps what a butcher would have. In actual butchering or even field dressing, one usually has to sharpen the knife several times in the process.

Also it seems like Jack took certain precautions after the throat cut which might be similar to what would be done with Kosher slaughter methods. Some writers have mentioned this with the idea Jack could have been a Jewish slaughterman.
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Old September 22nd, 2015, 11:06 AM   #15
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Lynn: The cachous are always problematic. Where did she get them, why was she holding them, etc.? While we are not 100% sure the woman BS-Man accosted was Liz, it may have been. Maybe it was her and she was emotionally upset~likely~and she stepped back into Dutfield's yard and proceeded to consume a cachou for her nerves. If the cachous were mint, mint has long been a folk remedy for a lot of things including emotional upset. (I recently chewed a piece of peppermint gum when I wasn't feeling well. I don't like gum but I chewed it for the peppermint which is comforting, and it got me thinking about cachous.)

Emanuele: I live in the western US and have hunted big game like deer and elk and am competent to cut up meat and field dress a carcass. We don't usually eat kidneys in the US so I won't comment on extraction of a kidney. (Patricia Cornwell made points about JtR "plucking" some organs. That is a British term. I assume it is somewhat like "blunt dissection" in medicine, tearing rather than cutting.)

I have felt what happened to MJK could have showed signs of someone who knew how to butcher. Jack cut flesh to the bone and completely stripped the flesh from the bone. Flesh is well attached to bone. Certain cuts that removed flesh from the rib area are similar to butchering. I think the doctors commented on this as well.

It looks like Jack scored flesh in certain areas~note the dark line below the right knee~preparatory to removing other parts, I think. I would thing this would be more a butcher's technique than medical.

Again with MJK, there was a lot of cutting. I think he cut till his knife got so dull he couldn't continue. The damage to Mary's left side is much cruder than that to the right. Anyway there was a lot of cutting and I am of the opinion this takes am especially good quality knife, perhaps what a butcher would have. In actual butchering or even field dressing, one usually has to sharpen the knife several times in the process.

Also it seems like Jack took certain precautions after the throat cut which might be similar to what would be done with Kosher slaughter methods. Some writers have mentioned this with the idea Jack could have been a Jewish slaughterman.
Hi Anna.

Do you think it is possbile the Ripper cut the throats from the head? I mean the victim had her head coinciding with the Ripper's feet. Then he cut so he wouldn't receive the reject of blood from the severance of the carotid and if so he could have cut very well, actually, from ear to ear... and obviously appear lefthanded...
What about you?

Regards,
Em
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Old September 22nd, 2015, 12:08 PM   #16
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Hello Emanuele. Thanks.

I most emphatically believe that Polly and Annie's killer was a butcher--but not Kate's.

Look at the incisions: skillful vs unskillful.

Cheers.
LC
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Old September 22nd, 2015, 12:10 PM   #17
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Hello Ana. Thanks.

They seem to have been breath fresheners.

Cheers.
LC
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Old September 22nd, 2015, 12:43 PM   #18
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Emanuele:I picture Jack kneeling beside the victim. I think his left hand manipulated the head and the right hand did the cutting. (I can get mixed up talking about right and left but I'll give it a try.) I picture him kneeling at the left side of the victims, the head to Jack's left. His left hand may have twisted the head a bit to the victim's right, the better to expose the throat and drain blood.

I don't spend a lot of time anymore thinking about what he actually did. There have always been some things that got my attention and I remember those things, some of which I mentioned before. The cuts to MJK's rib area remind me of the way some butchers take meat from a sheep carcass.

I have actually looked quite a bit at the full length picture of MJK, but not for the blood and gore aspect. Jane Coram did a lot of computer enhancement techniques on various aspects of this crime and I saw those, and have looked at everything in the picture for clues. Some people think there are clues to be seen but I never found anything remarkable that wasn't already known..

I have also looked a great deal at what is left of Mary's face. It is terrible that her face was ruined and she is unidentified. (My interest there is largely artistic as I am an artist, but seldom draw the human face. At any rate I couldn't do better than the various computer enhancement techniques that have been used.)

Anyway, my point is this is pretty much the extent of my thinking about what Jack actually did. I probably wouldn't comment on such things except I do live close to nature and frequently get and process meat more like it was done in 1888. So I have some general thoughts about how Jack might have done things and some of the difficulties he may have faced. Even so, as a woman I cannot say what it would be like to do those things while flushed with rage and testosterone. There is no way a woman can really know what men feel nor for men to actually feel what women do.)
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Old September 22nd, 2015, 12:59 PM   #19
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Emanuele:I picture Jack kneeling beside the victim. I think his left hand manipulated the head and the right hand did the cutting. (I can get mixed up talking about right and left but I'll give it a try.) I picture him kneeling at the left side of the victims, the head to Jack's left. His left hand may have twisted the head a bit to the victim's right, the better to expose the throat and drain blood.

I don't spend a lot of time anymore thinking about what he actually did. There have always been some things that got my attention and I remember those things, some of which I mentioned before. The cuts to MJK's rib area remind me of the way some butchers take meat from a sheep carcass.

I have actually looked quite a bit at the full length picture of MJK, but not for the blood and gore aspect. Jane Coram did a lot of computer enhancement techniques on various aspects of this crime and I saw those, and have looked at everything in the picture for clues. Some people think there are clues to be seen but I never found anything remarkable that wasn't already known..

I have also looked a great deal at what is left of Mary's face. It is terrible that her face was ruined and she is unidentified. (My interest there is largely artistic as I am an artist, but seldom draw the human face. At any rate I couldn't do better than the various computer enhancement techniques that have been used.)

Anyway, my point is this is pretty much the extent of my thinking about what Jack actually did. I probably wouldn't comment on such things except I do live close to nature and frequently get and process meat more like it was done in 1888. So I have some general thoughts about how Jack might have done things and some of the difficulties he may have faced. Even so, as a woman I cannot say what it would be like to do those things while flushed with rage and testosterone. There is no way a woman can really know what men feel nor for men to actually feel what women do.)
Hi Anna,

https://www.google.it/url?sa=i&rct=j...43027408802923

Look at this. Look at the first image of Catherine's facial wounds. Look at her throat. Doesn't it seem the Ripper cut it with his left hand if he was standing on the front?
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Old September 22nd, 2015, 01:00 PM   #20
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Or another way to look at it, especially with MJK, is that if Jack was just raving mentally ill, he would have hacked and slashed away random chunks of flesh, I think. Jack had goals and a system to accomplish certain acts though none of it makes any sense to me. He seemed to have some knowledge of handling "meat", so to speak.
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