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Points To Ponder A forum filled with rehashed ideas, overlooked & often original theories, and newspaper articles from days gone by.

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Old November 18th, 2017, 06:57 PM   #1
Howard Brown
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Default Point to Ponder : The WM As Sex Crimes But Without The Sex ?

Years ago, I gave the idea of these murders being something other than sexual crimes, as in possibly ritualistic or at least non-sexual in terms of motive.

I've come around to the idea that they probably were sexually motivated crimes....or 51/49 in favor of them being sexual.

There were no signs of a sexual assault upon any of the victims or of consensual intercourse....

Can you think of other sexually motivated serial murders in which male on female connection is missing ?

The Ripper really didn't have the time, did he, to make a connection....in fact, I'd wager he knew that before committing his murders.

If merely killing them ( still motivated by sex) did not satiate him, you'd think he would have taken them to a secluded spot after the first murder.

Tabram: in a building a few feet from apartments
Nichols: murdered on a sidewalk
Chapman: in a backyard
Stride: side of a building with dozens of people going in and out all evening
Eddowes: in a public square albeit in a dark section of that square
Kelly: Indoors
Mackenzie: in an alley, not much different than Nichols' murder

Your thoughts......
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Old November 18th, 2017, 09:07 PM   #2
Anna Morris
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I have thought about this a lot recently after watching some crime show where a seasoned investigator--not profiler--said some horrific murders that include mutilation are done for the purpose of mutilation only and there is no sexual angle. Something about the killer wanting to see what is inside his victim.

Prostitutes willing to go with a stranger provide excellent prey for any purpose.

Then we have Mary Kelly. It is easy to think the killer only wanted to mutilate. (Considering the terrible mess, could investigators have known if a sexual act had been performed?) If the killer only wanted to control, kill and mutilate a woman, the killer of MJK MUST have had to play along with the idea the two of them would have sex in her room. If he was a psychopathic mutilator could he have convinced her?

Long before I ever joined any forums I used to read discussions. Some comments stuck in my mind. One wondered if JtR, possibly a mentally deranged JtR--maybe it was about Kosminski--could engage a prostitute like Mary in enough conversation to keep her at ease in her room? I think part of the thread was also was about whether or not JtR was invited into her room or if he crept in after she went to bed.

We have discussed that last point in depth here. It appears Mary undressed for someone. It was a cold night and she only had a sheet and blanket. Other women in similar circumstances laid down in their clothes to sleep or rest. Mary MUST have invited him in.

If JtR was only interested in mutilation it makes it easier to add Emma Smith and Martha Tabram to his tally. Emma survived. Whoever killed Martha put a lot of clumsy effort into making sure she was dead. (Or maybe he was just very angry and that is why he stabbed so many times.)
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Old November 18th, 2017, 10:11 PM   #3
Dusty Miller
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It depends on how you define "sex".

I think it's entirely possible that the killer achieved sexual gratification in their own way. The fact that the mutilations occurred around the sexual parts of the victims would seem to have some kind of significance.
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Old November 18th, 2017, 10:58 PM   #4
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I know it's a well worn theory now but I don't discount the idea that the killer simply harboured some sort of hatred towards women. There could be any number of reasons why (a mother who had abandoned him? a partner who had done him over? some sort of psychological problem?), and it need not be hatred of prostitutes in particular as they were simply the easiest targets in the East End.

Regardless of how you define sexual gratification, it is evident enough that the actual act of intercourse wasn't his prime motivation. I definitely think there's more than a hint of revenge killing in the escalating brutality of the crimes.

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Old November 19th, 2017, 05:04 AM   #5
String
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Power could also be included.
When killing he had power over these women. He could do what he liked.
Perhaps in his daily life he didnít have this power and killing and mutilation gave him what he lacked and desired.
Sex and power for some men go hand in hand. Power can be a strong aphrodisiac, witness political sex scandals.
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Old November 19th, 2017, 11:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by String View Post
Power could also be included.
When killing he had power over these women. He could do what he liked.
Perhaps in his daily life he didnít have this power and killing and mutilation gave him what he lacked and desired.
Sex and power for some men go hand in hand. Power can be a strong aphrodisiac, witness political sex scandals.
It is said that powerful and successful men have higher testosterone levels and higher sex drives. This was put forth to explain the sexual escapades of men like our Presidents Kennedy and Clinton. (Or maybe this came out when Clinton was running for a second term.)

I am not sure the same would hold true for criminals who become sexually aroused by their crimes. Most of them are anything but successful and many seem to be drifters with no particular drives to accomplish much. When I think of sexual arousal for non-sexual stimuli I think of arsonists.

Though women differ from men, some women have claimed sexual gratification from their crimes. Most recently How posted articles about "Jolly Jane" the nurse at the beginning of the last century who poisoned her victims with morphine and other drugs and kissed and stroked them as they died ans who said she was excited by watching these people die.

On a flip side it is popularly though erroneously assumed that legitimately powerful women are lesbians. Even so, excessive sexual activity does not seem to be a trait of powerful women as it is for powerful men.
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Old November 25th, 2017, 04:07 AM   #7
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Good point String. He could also have been a bit of an adrenaline junkie who got off on the thought that he could be caught red handed at any moment.

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