Jack The Ripper Forums  - Ripperology For The 21st Century  

Go Back   Jack The Ripper Forums - Ripperology For The 21st Century > Maps & Charts

Maps & Charts Area of JTRForums for maps of the East End and other relevant areas. Charts and graphs will be found here as well

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old October 25th, 2013, 01:12 AM   #1
Tom_Wescott
Researcher and Award Winning Author
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Tulsa, Ok. USA
Posts: 5,176
Default 9-12 Dorset Street

Hello all,

Does anyone know who owned the lodging houses from 9-12 circa 1888-1891? And did the house(s) at these addresses have names? Any help would be appreciated.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
Tom_Wescott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2013, 01:52 PM   #2
Tom_Wescott
Researcher and Award Winning Author
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Tulsa, Ok. USA
Posts: 5,176
Default

Bump.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
Tom_Wescott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2013, 02:21 PM   #3
Phillip Walton
Researcher
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,624
Default

I assume whoever owned or leased the properties paid rates to the local authorities, also the 1891 census might give some clues,
Phillip Walton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2013, 02:25 PM   #4
Debra Arif
Sausage brain
 
Debra Arif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,168
Default

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....ani#post170386

This may answer your questions but you'll have to follow the link and scroll all the way down to post #14.
Debra Arif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2013, 02:41 PM   #5
Tom_Wescott
Researcher and Award Winning Author
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Tulsa, Ok. USA
Posts: 5,176
Default

Thanks a million, Debs. This answered my question...but rather created a new one. My interest was because John Arundell, friend of Elizabeth Stride and one of the first to identify her by her real name, lived at 32 F&D Street when she was murdered. By December of that year we find him at 19 George Street when he was a witness to the Annie Farmer attack. In the 1891 census we find him as the deputy of numbers 9-12 Dorset Street. John Satchell owned 32 F&D and 19 George Street, with John McCarthy running 11 and 12 Dorset Street. Satchell and McCarthy were old friends so the connection makes sense. But could the census have made a mistake in having Arundell as deputy of 9 and 10, ran by Thomas Oyler and not McCarthy, or does it make sense to you that one man would be running four houses? That seems a rather difficult load.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
Tom_Wescott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2013, 02:50 PM   #6
Debra Arif
Sausage brain
 
Debra Arif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,168
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
Thanks a million, Debs. This answered my question...but rather created a new one. My interest was because John Arundell, friend of Elizabeth Stride and one of the first to identify her by her real name, lived at 32 F&D Street when she was murdered. By December of that year we find him at 19 George Street when he was a witness to the Annie Farmer attack. In the 1891 census we find him as the deputy of numbers 9-12 Dorset Street. John Satchell owned 32 F&D and 19 George Street, with John McCarthy running 11 and 12 Dorset Street. Satchell and McCarthy were old friends so the connection makes sense. But could the census have made a mistake in having Arundell as deputy of 9 and 10, ran by Thomas Oyler and not McCarthy, or does it make sense to you that one man would be running four houses? That seems a rather difficult load.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
I think we talked before about how property information from land Tax records and Lodging House registers for the same years don't seem to marry up as far as owners and proprietors go? It was also discussed briefly on the thread I linked to, I think. Perhaps there's an element of that involved? I couldn't really offer an opinion without giving everything you mentioned a much closer look as there's a lot to take in there!
Debra Arif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2013, 02:59 PM   #7
Tom_Wescott
Researcher and Award Winning Author
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Tulsa, Ok. USA
Posts: 5,176
Default

My completely unsubstantiated opinion is that Arundell might have been one of the "bullies" employed by lodging houses as security. You know those little details that don't seem to mean much but niggle at you? One of them for me is how Elizabeth Tanner, deputy of #32, claimed not to have known Stride's real name, but Arundell knew it. This in spite of the fact that 'Long Liz' is a play on Stride's surname, so she was not secretive at all about her identity. And Tanner claimed to have been friends with Stride for six years, to the extent that she offered her that sweet paying gig of cleaning a room for the rather high payment of 6s, instead of offering it to more regular lodgers who would have killed for it.

I'm not reading anything too deep into it, but it just niggles at me. I don't trust lodging house keepers any further than I could throw them.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott
Tom_Wescott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2013, 09:40 PM   #8
Edward Stow
Researcher
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,005
Default

Here are the plans for 11-12 Duval Street in 1903 when it was owned by McCarthy.
Name:  12 duval street c.jpg
Views: 352
Size:  44.5 KB
Name:  12 duval street b.jpg
Views: 344
Size:  34.9 KB
Edward Stow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2015, 04:28 PM   #9
JMenges
Former Member
 
JMenges's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 453
Default Updates on Arundell?

I've received a message (off-boards) from someone who is casually interested in Arundell as a possible suspect. I'd appreciate it if any more biographical info could be found and posted to flesh out this rather interesting character.

All the best,

JM
JMenges is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2015, 06:34 PM   #10
Robert Linford
Researcher Extraordinaire
 
Robert Linford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 18,743
Default

Hi Jon

John Peter Arundel(l). Born 1854 London. Married twice, having several children. By 1901 he was manager of St Olaves Chambers, a men's lodging house in Silvester St, Newington. This building housed over 600 people. He died in 1917 leaving approx. 150.
Robert Linford is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mike Covell's Chronology Mike Covell D'Onston Stephenson 88 December 28th, 2010 05:55 AM
Poverty in the East End Sam Flynn The East End of London 35 March 14th, 2010 06:14 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10 Beta 2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright @ Howard & Nina Brown 2015-2022