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Old January 26th, 2014, 11:55 AM   #11
Howard Brown
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NED:

There doesn't seem to be any documentation that suggests she could have been.
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Old January 26th, 2014, 09:14 PM   #12
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This brings my mind back to "Tiger Bay" which was apparently Brunswick Street and the streets immediately surrounding, which would include Providence Street. This street was said to be notorious as a hang out of thieves and prostitutes, brothels etc. And Kozminski quite possibly lived right in the midst of it all during the time of the Ripper murders. So I am not sure if the area still was the same in 1888, but if so, it is very interesting for Kozminski as a suspect in the Ripper murders.

I do believe that one witness actually referred to Brunswick Street as "Tiger bay " during the Stride Inquest:

Witness Edward Spooner:
"As I was going to Berner-street I did not meet any one except Mr. Harris, who came out of his house in Tiger Bay (Brunswick-street)."

Stride Inquest, Times (London) - Wednesday, 3 October 1888

So if this was still the notorious Tiger Bay of lore, then it quite possibly was an area of brothels.

I have no real proof of this. Specifically, I think the area WAS a notorious district in around the 1860s-1870s... whether it was the same in 1888, I do not know.

Help?

RH
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 04:46 PM   #13
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Does anyone happen to know exactly where "Brunswick Gardens" was?

See: http://www.victorianlondon.org/publications7/odd-12.htm

Also, what is the meaning of the term "Jack" in this context? Does it mean "the client of a prostitute"?

Rob H
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 05:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob House View Post
Does anyone happen to know exactly where "Brunswick Gardens" was?
"Brunswick Gardens is a goodish bit further up [from Brunswick Street]..."

http://www.mernick.org.uk/thhol/tigerbay.html
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Also, what is the meaning of the term "Jack" in this context? Does it mean "the client of a prostitute"?
Judging by the other references to "Jack" in the article, Rob, it seems to refer to sailors. Albeit, perhaps, in an oblique reference to sailors as users of prostitutes.

BTW, the references to "rhino" in the article are in the sense of a slang word for "money" (ref. Oxford English Dictionary). You learn something new here every day!
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 05:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Judging by the other references to "Jack" in the article, Rob, it seems to refer to sailors. Albeit, perhaps, in an oblique reference to sailors as users of prostitutes.
What about this sentence from the article:

"The proverb that "all work and no play," &c., applies no less to a sailor than to every other Jack; but one would desire to see him a little less recklessly impulsive in the pursuit of pastime that is to his peculiar taste, end a great deal less foolish as regards the extravagant price in money and in health he pays in attaining it. "

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Old March 3rd, 2014, 06:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob House View Post
What about this sentence from the article:

"The proverb that "all work and no play," &c., applies no less to a sailor than to every other Jack; but one would desire to see him a little less recklessly impulsive in the pursuit of pastime that is to his peculiar taste, end a great deal less foolish as regards the extravagant price in money and in health he pays in attaining it. "

Rob H
Hi Rob

I do take it that while the author is talking about "Sailor Jack" about town they are also using the name "Jack" to be akin to what might be taken to be a "john" with a prostitute, or an easy mark for the criminal class generally, so thus the author writes about "Jack, in company with the petticoated harpies," and a "hawk-eyed hag" in a dance hall, wearing clothes that might make her "successful bait for Jack-fishing," and so on.

Best regards

Chris
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 06:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob House View Post
What about this sentence from the article:

"The proverb that "all work and no play," &c., applies no less to a sailor than to every other Jack
I take that to be an allusion to the idiomatic phrase "every man Jack" (i.e. every single person). It also plays with the sense of of "Jack" as sailor and also on the well-known "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy". I don't get the impression that the author necessarily means "Jack" to be a euphemism for "prostitute's client".
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Old March 4th, 2014, 11:34 PM   #18
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Liz Stride was confirmed in the Swedish Church while in Sweden so I don't think she was Jewish.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 12:20 PM   #19
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I am still confused on where Brunswick Gardens was...

In the article above it speaks of "Tiger Bay"... "the real name of which was Brunswick Gardens, and mainly consisted of a long and sinuous thoroughfare, extending from the "Highway" to Cable Street."

On my Victorian Map, I see Brunswick Street, which is parallel to Providence Street, where Aaron Kozminski's brother lived. But this is a few streets north of Cable Street...

So where is Brunswick Gardens? Can we get some help from the LVP street experts? Rob Clack, Phillip H, John B, etc...?

Rob

PS: I am trying to look for it on the 1894 Ordinance Map here (http://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/#zoom=17...FFFFFFFFFTFFFT) and can't find it.

RH
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Old March 5th, 2014, 12:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob House View Post
I am still confused on where Brunswick Gardens was...

In the article above it speaks of "Tiger Bay"... "the real name of which was Brunswick Gardens, and mainly consisted of a long and sinuous thoroughfare, extending from the "Highway" to Cable Street."

On my Victorian Map, I see Brunswick Street, which is parallel to Providence Street, where Aaron Kozminski's brother lived. But this is a few streets north of Cable Street...

So where is Brunswick Gardens? Can we get some help from the LVP street experts? Rob Clack, Phillip H, John B, etc...?

Rob
Hi Rob

Unless there was a Brunswick Gardens in the East End that has since disappeared it looks as if Brunswick Gardens was Campden Hill, Kensington, London W8. See here for its map location -- it's not far from Kensington Palace. Also see

London and its environs: handbook for travellers, with 3 maps and 15 plans, 1889 (Google Books)

Possibly the writer that was referencing "Brunswick Gardens" as an East End location was mistaken about the name? You are correct that there was a Brunswick Street near Cable Street that was lost to railway improvements.

Best regards

Chris
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