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Old December 22nd, 2011, 12:12 PM   #21
George Lorton
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Hi Phillip, perhaps that could be regarded as offensive but it was the truth in a way as Theatre or show folk did have not a loose set of morals but different standard of morality then your basic man on the street. I'm not saying that they were bad folks or lazy just that performers have always lived in their own community, especially back then when they were mostly ostracized by society and the ordinary folks.

I wanted to post here regarding Ethel Le Neve though. I made a post in another topic and I feel that I did Ms Le Neve a terrible disservice.

-Regarding Le Neve's miscarriage of Feb 1910, I feel that Crippen might of given her something that caused her to abort with out her knowledge. She might of thought that she had an actual miscarriage which she actually might of given the situation and the stress she was under.

Her landlady backed her up which kind of confirms this theory for me. there is also the stories and suspicion regarding Crippen's treatment of his first wife, Charlotte.
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 04:32 PM   #22
Bob Hinton
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Default Ethel

In the late sixties my mother was a district nurse and one of her calls was a very elderly ex policeman.

One day he opened a drawer and gave her a scarf. He said that he was one of the officers who used to escort Ethel Le Neve to and from court for her trial and when she was acquitted she gave him her scarf as a thank you for being kind.

Oh mother whatever happened to that scarf?
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Old December 22nd, 2011, 05:40 PM   #23
Livia Trivia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Hutchinson View Post
What a bizarre thing to say, and not a little offensive.

PHILIP
I somehow missed this.

What George said...

There's no shortage of names to prove my point.
From Nell Gwyn ("Pray good people be civil, I am
the Protestant whore.") to Edmund Kean, to John
Wilkes Booth and Oscar Wilde, to Liz Taylor, Joan
Crawford, Nancy Reagan and Marilyn Monroe, to Phil
Specter, Robert Blake and OJ Simpson, there's
scores of them.

Sorry you're offended, but facts are facts.
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Old December 23rd, 2011, 10:25 PM   #24
George Lorton
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Hi Bob,

I bet Ethel did appreciate kind people after what she had been through.
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Old December 24th, 2011, 04:10 PM   #25
Chris G.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia Trivia View Post
The people the Crippens socialized with were retired show people. Their standards of morality were far more lax than most everyone else's, then and now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Hutchinson View Post
What a bizarre thing to say, and not a little offensive.

PHILIP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia Trivia View Post
I somehow missed this.

What George said...

There's no shortage of names to prove my point.
From Nell Gwyn ("Pray good people be civil, I am
the Protestant whore.") to Edmund Kean, to John
Wilkes Booth and Oscar Wilde, to Liz Taylor, Joan
Crawford, Nancy Reagan and Marilyn Monroe, to Phil
Specter, Robert Blake and OJ Simpson, there's
scores of them.

Sorry you're offended, but facts are facts.
Sorry, Livia, but how does this odd assorted list of names in any way bear witness to the charge that you made that the show business people that the Crippens associated with were inordinately immoral? As a member of a family that has show business connections I also find your statement offensive and ill thought out.

Chris
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Old December 24th, 2011, 08:02 PM   #26
George Lorton
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Well I was gonna let it go but if Livia was speaking in retrospect then she has a point on how show biz folks were viewed in 1910.

Dew, at first certainly didn't believe the Strong Woman, regarding Cora disappearance.

I don't know what the deal was over there in the UK regarding show folks but over here in the USA if you were an Actor and your last name wasn't Barrymore, Adams or Booth or another Broadway name you were treated like dirt for the most part. You couldn't stay in certain hotels and got substandard service at restaurants. mostly it depended on what state or even what town you were in. Mostly though actors were looked upon as cheats and liars and actresses were thought to be glorified prostitutes.
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Old December 25th, 2011, 09:46 AM   #27
Chris G.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Lorton View Post
Well I was gonna let it go but if Livia was speaking in retrospect then she has a point on how show biz folks were viewed in 1910.

Dew, at first certainly didn't believe the Strong Woman, regarding Cora disappearance.

I don't know what the deal was over there in the UK regarding show folks but over here in the USA if you were an Actor and your last name wasn't Barrymore, Adams or Booth or another Broadway name you were treated like dirt for the most part. You couldn't stay in certain hotels and got substandard service at restaurants. mostly it depended on what state or even what town you were in. Mostly though actors were looked upon as cheats and liars and actresses were thought to be glorified prostitutes.
Hi George

You make a good point about period attitudes. But I would make the perhaps better point that this was the sort of bigotry that almost got Mrs. Maybrick hanged. She had loose morals in having an extramarital affair, so therefore she was capable of anything. It's also the sort of thinking that unfortunately riddles the case and is used as the basis for some suspect theories and thinking about the case. He did this, so therefore he is capable of this. Actually it is bogus thinking and not useful in criminology or Ripperology.

Best regards

Chris
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Old December 25th, 2011, 11:22 AM   #28
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Hi Chris G,

That is what it was too, Bigotry. I think over here in the States it goes back to John Wilkes Booth, an actor shooting our President Lincoln.

the US government was just awful to the Actors in our American Cousin, most of whom were English. they, the government thought that all Actors were involved too because John Wilkes Booth waited for a certain comic line to be uttered before he struck.

I'm still not familiar with the Maybrick Case after more then a year posting here too. However I feel for Ms. Maybrick, having to deal with folks bigotry as I have had to deal with it myself.

Zelda Sayer Fitzgerald often comes to mind when I think along these lines as she too had to deal with folks gossiping about her in her own home town because she was a manic depressive, who had suffered a complete breakdown.

Another person is Juanita Hanson, an early serial Queen of the teens who got addicted to cocaine and wrote a book about her experiences of how she was treated by people after she had gotten off drugs. She called her book The Conspiracy Of Silence.

Last edited by George Lorton; December 25th, 2011 at 11:26 AM. Reason: Got the book title wrong
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